Common Buckthorn Yamadori, the beginnings of a journey (Rhamnus cathartica)

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Shohin
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So a couple weeks ago I went Yamadori scouting in and around my parents' property. Lots of overgrown fields and patches of woods. One species I had in mind on this walk was this one, though I was unable to identify it until now. Common Buckthorn or Rhamnus cathartica. It is an exotic invasive here in the Americas, originally native to europe and was brought here as an ornamental tree apparently. It grows like a weed around my parents property. It is a small tree, does not get very much taller than 25 feet as I've seen it around here. Reminds me of Hawthorn when I see a mature tree... smaller in stature but wild and gnarly in character.

The Bark seems to mature to a rough and gnarled almost black color quite quickly and in contrast the leaves are quite small and delicate looking (~2inches long, oval shaped and smooth, perfectly sized for bonsai), which I love that stark contrast between trunk and foliage.

I suppose the reason why I am putting all this detail in is that I have been very very hard-strapped to find any other instances of people using this species as bonsai. Which if they grow like they do around here in other areas I would hope someone would have ripped one out of the ground by now to experiment. But these are the two threads i've really been able to find, which are completely lacking:
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthr...nsai-(Rhamnus-cathartica)&highlight=buckthorn
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2976-buckthornrhamnus-cathartica-as-bonsai

Here's the Yamadori I've fallen in love with:
Buckthorn 1.jpg Buckthorn 2.jpg Buckthorn 3.jpg

The pictures make it look smaller than it actually is I feel. I have to remember to bring a soda can with me next time I go hiking. I think the trunk base is probably 7 or 8 inches across, and where the second branch up departs from the main trunk is definitely over a foot off the ground. I believe I could achieve really great, dramatic taper rather quickly by chopping the main trunk above the second branch.

I'm thinking that I will chop the main trunk this spring, as well as the second branch to some degree (this branch will serve as the new apex trunk/leader) and will chop the first branch (on the right in pic 1) as well. Although I am considering keeping the first branch on to further develop taper. This may not be necessary at all though. Thoughts???

PS.
Here's someone else's decent collection of photos of Common Buckthorn Foliage and fruits, etc (I'll have to remember to take pictures when the leave are still on the tree!): http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/rhamnuscathartica/Interesting
 
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I guess the point of me posting this thread was to see if anyone out there has any experience with this species at all, specifically collecting.
I'm debating whether I should completely collect the tree this spring and get it into a training pot, OR if I should just cut it back really hard, dig a trench and sever the major roots, then let it recover for another year and collect it the next spring. The longer time frame wouldn't be an issue as it is growing on my parents property. On the other hand there are tons of common buckthorn growing around here too, so losing this one wouldn't be completely detrimental. It's just the nicest trunk I've found so far.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

PS.
This is the only image I've been able to find of this specific species as bonsai, keep in mind the trunk on the one I'm going to collect is substantially wider than this one:
Common Buckthorn Bonsai.jpg

and the photographer's page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25360950@N06/2820005474
 
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While I may not have any experience working with buckthorn, here's something to think about when collecting (some of this I learned the hard way).

If you are collecting a big, mature trunk on a relatively "unknown" species, it stands to reason that you want to figure out the best way to do it so the tree can recoup more easily, since older trees don't generally respond to collection with the same vigor younger trees do.

One way to do this is to test out different collection techniques on smaller "guinea pig" trees in the general area. This means you might have to put off collection of the larger specimen for a season or two, but having the knowledge to remove it safely IMHO is worth the wait. (plus, you can later experiment with different pruning/styling techniques on the experiment trees to see how the big tree might react)
 
I feel SO old.....

Don't feel bad. I'm not that old, and I don't know who he is either... or... I am older than I think?!?

Hopefully this survives the harvest. Can't wait to see how this progresses.
 
Don't feel bad. I'm not that old, and I don't know who he is either... or... I am older than I think?!?

Hopefully this survives the harvest. Can't wait to see how this progresses.

I don't think age is a necessary factor in this, maybe just that you are or were slightly nerdy at one point. Jet is a character from a really highly regarded anime (japanese animation) show. Who has a robotic arm and also happens to enjoy bonsai. Haha.

And thanks. Since Buckthorn is rather aggressively invasive, at least in the area where I found this tree, I'm hoping that means this species is pretty resilient. When faced with sharp saws!:D But I think I will probably just work it while it's still in the ground this coming growing season. Sever some of the major lateral roots with a trench, and chop back the trunks to some degree. That way I can at least spare it from losing all it's foliage and most of it's roots in one go.
 
Buckthorn is incredibly tough. You can literally rip them out of the ground with no digging and if you set the bare roots down on the surface of the ground they will often re-root. I've been curious to give one a try. I think the biggest challenge is that they naturally have a long internode distance. Give it a shot.
 
Buckthorn is incredibly tough. You can literally rip them out of the ground with no digging and if you set the bare roots down on the surface of the ground they will often re-root. I've been curious to give one a try. I think the biggest challenge is that they naturally have a long internode distance. Give it a shot.

Oh great, good to know. I figured that may be the case, as is with lots of species that are aggressively invasive it seems. Welp, might as well just rip her outta the ground and into a training pot come spring! I honestly really hadn't looked into their internode length, but I think this specimen is large enough to balance that aspect out.
 
I can attest to their toughness as well. Two years ago I ripped one out of the ground, and in only one year it regrew an incredibly fine spiderweb of roots. With pinching and minimal fertilizer, it appears internodes have reduced a bit.
 
Just thought, that from now on I would come and talk crap on your threads,
seeing that you have felt it your civic duty to try and trash mine.
 
So how did it go. I found a couple near me that has been trimmed back by deer over the years and are all gnarly and really cool looking. I was going to try to Tony tickle technique and put them in a black bag
 
This is a very old thread and the OPer hasn't been seen for 3 years. You're unlikely to get a response. Nonetheless, it's an interesting species to consider as bonsai. We have Rhamnus californica (Coffeeberry) out here and they have wonderful leaves. I always wondered if it would take to bonsai culture.
 
So how did it go. I found a couple near me that has been trimmed back by deer over the years and are all gnarly and really cool looking. I was going to try to Tony tickle technique and put them in a black bag
Did you do it? I just found a filed full of them, construction site so they all will be dead soon. I'm considering taking one up to train, same reasons as you- the deer pruned them nicely so the trunks are somewhat thick and cool looking. I'm not sure about the thorns to be honest, but the sprouting leaves are beautiful. The older trees that are growing there also very pretty to look at.
 
This is a very old thread and the OPer hasn't been seen for 3 years. You're unlikely to get a response. Nonetheless, it's an interesting species to consider as bonsai. We have Rhamnus californica (Coffeeberry) out here and they have wonderful leaves. I always wondered if it would take to bonsai culture.
Does the coffeeberry have thorns like buckthorn? I'd love to see picture
 
Did you do it? I just found a filed full of them, construction site so they all will be dead soon. I'm considering taking one up to train, same reasons as you- the deer pruned them nicely so the trunks are somewhat thick and cool looking. I'm not sure about the thorns to be honest, but the sprouting leaves are beautiful. The older trees that are growing there also very pretty to look at.
Yes! I just took it out of the bag yesterday, a bunch of shoots are 2" or more and lots of new little buds breaking. Going to keep it out of the sun for about a month and just get it some partial sun and see what happens.
 
Yes! I just took it out of the bag yesterday, a bunch of shoots are 2" or more and lots of new little buds breaking. Going to keep it out of the sun for about a month and just get it some partial sun and see what happens.

You know that's a download with your email on it?
@Bonsai Nut is a safe place but he could probably edit it if need be.

Sorce
 
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