Chokecherries

[karen82]

I have a bunch of chokecherries in an overgrown, weedy part of the yard. They aren't very healthy, due to being in a shady area, I think, so I was thinking of collecting some. Even if they don't make it, I don't think they'll survive much longer where they are so it's not a big loss.

How are chokecherries as bonsai? I can find very little on them. I've found a few places saying they are good for bonsai, but have yet to find a single photo of a finished bonsai chokecherry. All I've been able to turn up are a few photos of prebonsai.

 

[M. Frary]

Choke or wild cherries don't make good bonsai.
I'm willing to bet the ones on your property have fungus of some sort.
It's one of their main drawbacks. They are magnets for pests.
And they are short lived.
I would pass.

 

[Waltron]

I think choke cherry is better suited for bonsai than black cherry. many pros use every other prunus species out there, I'm just having a hard time accepting that our wild cherry is unsuitable. I recently asked WP about prunus serotina, he said they are no different than any other prunus. I'll admit, that is a unique answer I've received, and I've polled several well todo people. Cherry offers great forms in the wild, yamadori is plentiful, they respond to collecting, however seem to decline in pot culture over time for some reason. There is a black cherry behind my house that must be hundreds of years old.. its a ginormous, old, tree, stands much taller than the ancient oaks in the adjoining woodlot, and nearly the same circumference. These trees can overcome obstacles.

 

[Melospiza]

i agree with the above criticisms of Choke, and maybe also black cherries. Another issue is their leaves don't reduce so you would need a very large specimen to start with. Carolina laurelcherry (prunus caroliniana) maybe somewhat better in this regard since I believe it is not so disease-prone and at least where I live you can find a lot of large specimens.

 

[Tycoss]

The wild chokecherry bushes around here tend to get black knot fungus infections very regularly. With regard to the leaf size, I've seen some very stunted ones in the dry hills of the Alberta prairie that have leaves of only an inch or so. I've never collected any for bonsai, but I have found two I may try out next spring.

 

[karen82]

Thanks for the info on chokecherries.
The one I was thinking of collecting had a kind of nice base, at least compared to anything else I could collect in my own yard.


But I was worried about its health because this is the top of the tree:

Half dead and what's alive doesn't look too good.

And then on a smaller tree near it, what I can only assume is that black knot fungus:


I guess it's not worth trying to save is it? I still think that at least part of its poor health is from the heavily shaded location so I'm tempted to give it a chance. But I also don't want to risk infecting my other trees.

 

[Tycoss]

Black knot will infect any other prunus species. I wouldn't risk it if you have any other prunus species.

 

[Mitty]

If you hard prune your tree and rid yourself of nasty blisters, re pot in good quality Bonsai soil. You might get a decent tree. Prunus are not the easiest plants to deal with. Look after them and feed next year. If potted then feed a gentle fertilizer with Phosphorus and Potassium could be applied in Autumn until leaf drop. Have a go next year at reducing leaf size. I have had some luck with sand cherries.

 

[M. Frary]

Half dead and what's alive doesn't look too good.

And then on a smaller tree near it, what I can only assume is that black knot fungus

All good reasons to just walk away.
Look around. There are much better trees to collect.
If you're going to expend the energy and time you might as well collect something that isn't going t be a problem from the outset.

 

[Mitty]

I have to say that putting yourself out for wild Prunus seems a tad much. However a blackthorn tree is worth the trouble , I have had great success with these. I also have used Ebay for starter trees. I have a nice Raoul tree , and a couple of Chichibuensis birch trees for very little money. I also got a yellow leaved Elm that way. Oh course I cannot pick any wild trees as it is strictly against the law in the UK.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

All members of Prunus have been disease prone for me. If you are willing to stay on top of disease issues, spray or apply one thing or another every other week during grow season, they are great. I'm exaggerating, but once a Prunus comes down with something it is serious work to get them clean enough. Cherries will get all kinds of insects and fungus. Only one worse is the culinary peach.

You're in Wisconsin, the choke cherry is very hardy, try it if you want, but largely I agree with @M. Frary

 

[Waltron]

for the record, the main problem ive had highlighted by rockm for black cherry not choke, which i personally put in the same category as choke (could easily be a terrible assumption idk), is not all the fungus and pests, but the trees natural response to bonsai pruning. pruning branches, and even pruning for ramification, from what I recall off the top of my head, according to rock, is not a reliable method and will likely cause total branch dieback. so on top of everything, that is the main fatal deceit of the black cherry, and im assuming the choke cherry as well.

however, why not blaze trail? birch trees are a little confusing when it comes to pruning, and overall kindna a pain, but they are still pretty cool. or they could be at least. ive seen cool birch.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

When someone wants to try a species that is known to be mediocre to poor for bonsai purposes, in the end I encourage them to try, for two reasons. One is, they might get lucky and discover they have the knack to get the tree "there". They might work out what we all have been doing wrong to make a tree work as bonsai.

The second reason, if they made the effort to post about it, especially if they post pictures, you know they will try anyway, no matter what the internet experts say. I know, that is what I did, more accurately, what I still do.

But the warnings will stick in their heads, and down the road, when they realize they (me too) don't have time to properly work my better trees because I have too many sticks in pots and never going to be something monstosities. When that time comes, you start clearing out the junk, the low potential and the too damn many years of growing out to do, you will remember that "expert" like me saying Pinus strobus will never be good, or choke cherries are so fungus prone. And then you'll be repeating that to the newbies coming along behind you. But not until after you sold them your eastern white pine and your fungus laden choke cherry.

 

[karen82]

I was honestly just curious about chokecherries, since I could find so little info. All I could find about them was that they were good for deadwood, and then some vague mention of them being 'prized' as bonsai in Japan (but this was for Amur chokecherries), but the lack of any photos of finished chokecherries of any species made me suspicious.
I'm still thinking of trying this tree just for some practice to see if it lives - I just want to find some more trees to work with and haven't had much luck finding nursery stock I liked. And I don't have much in my yard that I like, either. Some of the yard is semi wild but 90% of the smaller trees are box elder, buckthorn, silver maple, or other species that aren't good, either.

 

[Mitty]

I agree that most Prunus species are mainly without trouble. However I am having trouble with sand cherries. Whilst I do manage , they get diseased if I don't keep my eyes on them.
They seem to be prone to mildew . which means spraying. They are on a stand with about 100 other Bonsai trees and they are the only ones I have trouble with.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@karen82 I guess, or rather I know my comments seem negative, but I don't mean to cause pain. Choke cherry are better for bonsai than quite a few others, BUT, they have a host of problems that will frustrate you in the long term. The only reason I would recommend avoiding them is that you time would be better spend on something else, like maybe flowering quince, Chaenomeles. The local big box nursery, like home Depot has the Double Take series of flowering quince, and these are actually pretty good, hardy, and not that expensive. Or you can order pre bonsai from a nursery like Evergreen Gardenworks, and they will ship you young stock propagated for bonsai of species that work well for bonsai. They have some Prunus mume, and others, all cutting grown. Really a good deal. Google them, Brent Walston is owner.

Actually the invasive European buckthorn is not that bad as bonsai, and you never have to feel guilty about killing it. Buckthorn flowers are insignificantly tiny, so no spring show, and the black berries are okay, but really don't stand out as much as a holly or crab apple in autumn. So buckthorn works, but tends to be boring.

Silver maple and box elder can work if you plan a tree more than 3 feet tall and wide. The branches are too coarse, no fine twigs, but if you "go big" this is less noticable.

Try crab apple, or any Malus, for flowers and fruit. Flowering

 

[sorce]

I fully second buckthorn as a replacement.

I hope to grab about half a dozen in spring.

Bigguns!

Sorce