Chinese Elm, shohin from air layer

[ConorDash]

Hello,

So this is my little Chinese elm, mallsai that I air layered the top off about 2-3 weeks ago. It's looking a hell of a lot better than the top half is, but that's a different story.
What I wanted to ask, was what kind of paths would people now go down with this?



Sorry the pictures aren't great.

Personally, I'm only thinking that it should be left till fall, maybe pruned back a little when needed but mostly left till fall, leaves fall off and perhaps then better shaped by pruning back with a future idea in mind.

The other things swimming around in my head, are questions like, whether the trunk should be cut down more? Or whether it should be hard pruned now for a last bit of growth before fall. Or if there's anything that could be done to aid a better nebari, as I'm not sure I ever liked the way that looked.

As you can see, it's very much a cheap first tree that many get, so it has no amazing potential but I'm not going to give up on it. Just going to continue doing what I can and seeing where it takes me. I just want to be efficient with my time, if there's more I can be doing, then I'd like to do it .

 

[Anthony]

It's not bad, let me ask K for some visual advice.
In the mean time please don't do anything to it - okay.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[ConorDash]

It's not bad, let me ask K for some visual advice.
In the mean time please don't do anything to it - okay.
Good Day
Anthony

Sure lol. I don't know who K is? But I wasn't planning to do anything.
I kinda like its image from the first pic. The all leaves on 1 side like its facing in to a strong wind.

 

[BethF]

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'd let it grow unpruned until leaf drop. My understand is that the more foliage grows, the more the roots grow to respond to their increased needs for water and nutrients. You want as good a root system as possible before it copes with the cold of winter.

 

[ConorDash]

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'd let it grow unpruned until leaf drop. My understand is that the more foliage grows, the more the roots grow to respond to their increased needs for water and nutrients. You want as good a root system as possible before it copes with the cold of winter.

That sounds correct to me, and a good chance I'll do that.
This tree was repotting a good number of months ago, and only recently air layered so it's root system did support a tree double its current size. Which means it's roots should be good for winter, but you spake a good point and as its my first winter in bonsai, I am certainly worried! But it's not quite here yet . Thanks for your comment.

 

[M. Frary]

I don't know who K

A very secretive bonsai mastermind that lives in the uninhabited jungle on Anthony's island. Anthony is related to him and garners information from him whenever possible.
You should be honored that Anthony will try to get Ks advice for your tree. He's highly regarded in the Bermuda Triangle.

 

[M. Frary]

K also turns pictures to the correct orientation on another forum. The IBC. He posts when he comes to town for supplies every now and then.
That's also when he and Anthony make wire out of ball bearings. Dont ask. Ancient Chinese secret.

 

[ConorDash]

A very secretive bonsai mastermind that lives in the uninhabited jungle on Anthony's island. Anthony is related to him and garners information from him whenever possible.
You should be honored that Anthony will try to get Ks advice for your tree. He's highly regarded in the Bermuda Triangle.

Ha, very good .
Funny, cos straight after Anthony posted, AlainK replied to my other topic.. Is this the same K or just a complete coincidence? Now starting to wonder what I did to gain such prestigious advice from someone such as him .

Also, funny, because I was wondering if you would appear on this topic Mike. It was you who first opened my eyes to my mallsai in its first post. You were very honest about it and it sort of set me on my path really, in a way.
And as that same tree has now had a bit of a change to it, it'd be nice to see your opinion along the way.

As I always say, I'm not expecting much from this tree but I'll keep doing things with it for as long as I have it, never know what might happen . Expect little, and one can easily be surprised aye.

 

[M. Frary]

I would let it grow freely for the rest of the year so it can build reserves for winter. In the spring before the leaves start growing repot and do root work. Also at that time do branch selection and wiring.

 

[M. Frary]

Also,K is Anthony's brother in law. He lives nearby. Not out in the jungle. He is an artist and bonsai hobbyist.

 

[sorce]

I still picture the 2 headed snake.
But I turned it into a dragon.

Tree is looking good!

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

I would let it grow freely for the rest of the year so it can build reserves for winter. In the spring before the leaves start growing repot and do root work. Also at that time do branch selection and wiring.

Also,K is Anthony's brother in law. He lives nearby. Not out in the jungle. He is an artist and bonsai hobbyist.

So far 2 for 2 with that plan then. Perfectly happy to do that. It was only repotted when purchased in March, so didn't think it'd need repotting again. Any reason for the repotting idea? Although I don't like the actual pot it is in, and i like repotting anyway, just didn't want to do it too often. But if there's a good reason for it, happy to.
You've made K sound so much less of an amazing person now Mike! After your first 2 messages. .
He is going to come on here and see us talking about him....

 

[ConorDash]

I still picture the 2 headed snake.
But I turned it into a dragon.

Tree is looking good!

Sorce

I don't know where the dragon came from lol.. But thank you .

 

[Smoke]

You need to make a plan in a hurry. Trust me these things need to be kept cut back and no they do not need long growth to winter. These are pretty damn cold hardy trees and can take the teens with no problem if sheltered from wind. Continuing to let the growth get long like that will not allow the canopy to ramify. Those shoots will just elongate and get bigger. This is a sample of some shohin elms I am growing from cuttings The large leaves are from a branch off of a regular elm in training. You can see that by keeping the branches short and making small leaves.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/broom-elms.7100/#post-361468

 

[LanceMac10]

Teens in Fresno? I kill these things up here like I kill twelve packs!!
Temps like that happen in the fall up here!!!

 

[ConorDash]

You need to make a plan in a hurry. Trust me these things need to be kept cut back and no they do not need long growth to winter. These are pretty damn cold hardy trees and can take the teens with no problem if sheltered from wind. Continuing to let the growth get long like that will not allow the canopy to ramify. Those shoots will just elongate and get bigger. This is a sample of some shohin elms I am growing from cuttings The large leaves are from a branch off of a regular elm in training. You can see that by keeping the branches short and making small leaves.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/broom-elms.7100/#post-361468

View attachment 115404 View attachment 115405 View attachment 115406 View attachment 115407 View attachment 115408

Great looking little trees, thank you for the post.
I'll happily go along with your advice, but isn't the ramification something to worry about once I have a good branch structure?
I feel like this tree is too early in development to benefit from that?

How far back do you recommend pruning? Usually I'd go 3-4 internodes, but it depends on which branches are being grown more and less.

 

[Smoke]

Teens in Fresno? I kill these things up here like I kill twelve packs!!
Temps like that happen in the fall up here!!!

Surly one could winter in the garage?

http://weather-warehouse.com/Weathe...FresnoYosemiteIntlArpt_Fresno_CA_January.html

 

[Smoke]

Great looking little trees, thank you for the post.
I'll happily go along with your advice, but isn't the ramification something to worry about once I have a good branch structure?
I feel like this tree is too early in development to benefit from that?

How far back do you recommend pruning? Usually I'd go 3-4 internodes, but it depends on which branches are being grown more and less.

You do not have to treat an elm like any other tree. Elms will happily increase in girth whether 1 inch long or 30 inches long. Keep it compact and it will grow compact. Let it grow willy nilly till it is the size you want, will be a branch twice that size by the winter that year. Growing shohin elms will mean pruning weekly. If not weekly then you won't have a tidy tree. They are just too fast of a grower to maintain a good structure without pruning constantly.

 

[ConorDash]

You do not have to treat an elm like any other tree. Elms will happily increase in girth whether 1 inch long or 30 inches long. Keep it compact and it will grow compact. Let it grow willy nilly till it is the size you want, will be a branch twice that size by the winter that year. Growing shohin elms will mean pruning weekly. If not weekly then you won't have a tidy tree. They are just too fast of a grower to maintain a good structure without pruning constantly.

I'm happy to prune regularly. Just felt like other work was needed on it first.
The leaves are actually quite nice and small, in my opinion (attached a pic).
It's just all so messy, branches every which way and it's just a complete mess.

I hoped that in fall I could prune it back hard and start to develop a proper branch structure. Do you think this is a good plan?
I'll prune the long ones back tomorrow, thanks.

 

[Smoke]

I'm happy to prune regularly. Just felt like other work was needed on it first.

Just keep in mind that like a maple, cutting between leaves does not guarantee budding there. It will just continue from the leaf nodes.

The leaves are actually quite nice and small, in my opinion (attached a pic).

Keeping the leaves small is good. what it better is keeping the internodes short.

It's just all so messy, branches every which way and it's just a complete mess.

Thats where having a plan helps. What is the form your tree will take. Spreading oak? pine tree? wherever the tree takes itself? This is accomplished thru wire now. Those 1 mm branches are easy to train now, not so much when their 5 mm across.

I hoped that in fall I could prune it back hard and start to develop a proper branch structure. Do you think this is a good plan?
I'll prune the long ones back tomorrow, thanks.

You will never develop a good elm by pruning in the fall. Minimum is monthly and most probably weekly. You will be a slave to wire while putting it on one month only to take it off and wire a month later.