Cheap Chinese elm

[GailC]

I have a friend who is interested in bonsai and she would like a Chinese elm. Any chance anyone here is selling one cheaply? She'd like to stay around $50 shipped.

 

[ml_work]

This is some at Brussels (last weekend) , the ones in the nursery pots show $89.00 and the ones in the pot run about $30.00 more (I think) . They do have hundreds more that are maybe $49.00 each, all cookie cutter trees, I did not take any pictures of those.
That is a beautiful wisteria, is that yours?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I am not joking when I say you might have luck at a Home Depot or Lowes. They normally have a small bonsai display in their garden center with a few inexpensive Chinese elms. $50 shipped means she is going to get a $30 tree with $20 shipping... so she might be better off looking local.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Brussels is selling them on eBay for $73 shipped...

 

[GailC]

I wish they sold them local but our box stores never have the mass produced bonsai.
I'll let her know about Brussels.

 

[sorce]

Gail...

You may be able to order from the box store and do in store pickup sans shipping...even if they don't carry them.

Dude recently bought a B Rain tree there...I was impressed!

Anyway, the (indoor/outdoor) thing with Chinese Elms makes me feel they can be more hassle than fun..

I'll start your friend a layer too!

Sorce

 

[GailC]

We've been looking at a elm on eBay, not too bad for the price so she will probably go with that.

She isn't particular about species right now, just wants something with small leaves.
I have convinced her to try a boxwood from home depot before she starts spending any real $ on plants she is likely to kill.

I'd be happy to take another start from you, if she tries to kill it, I'll take over the care.

I really want a rain tree but not sure I want the hassle of a tropical. I already have enough that needs wintering indoors.

 

[Woody Carverton]

She should get a seedling or starter. A person should learn to tend a tree in a pot before they add in wire and training. Bonsai is 80% horticulture. Whenever someone asks me for a bonsai, I give them a seedling with a year or two on it. If they can keep it alive for 2-3 years then they are ready to start with bonsai. A seedling costs about $10 max where a "bonsai" starts at around $50. cheaper mistakes on a seedling.

 

[M. Frary]

She should get a seedling or starter. A person should learn to tend a tree in a pot before they add in wire and training. Bonsai is 80% horticulture. Whenever someone asks me for a bonsai, I give them a seedling with a year or two on it. If they can keep it alive for 2-3 years then they are ready to start with bonsai. A seedling costs about $10 max where a "bonsai" starts at around $50. cheaper mistakes on a seedling.

A seedling isn't a bonsai. Most people starting out in bonsai want a bonsai. Not a twig.
Also most bonsai are created from large trees cut down to be bonsai. Giving someone new a seedling is nice but then they have to wait for it to grow so they can cut it down to build the bonsai.

She isn't particular about species right now, just wants something with small leaves.

Chinese elms don't start out with small eaves but as you keep them in check through pruning the leaves naturally get smaller.

 

[Woody Carverton]

A seedling isn't a bonsai. Most people starting out in bonsai want a bonsai. Not a twig.

Most people starting out in bonsai can't keep a "bonsai" alive. Giving them a cheaper twig in a pot to learn to keep a container tree alive teaches them at a lesser cost. The first lesson of bonsai is patience. If they cannot appreciate the steps taken to create a bonsai then maybe they are not ready.

To each their own, but for years, any time I come across someone wanting a bonsai I give them a "twig" and a book. Truth is they are more knowledgeable and appreciative of bonsai down the road then when I use to give people young bonsai, in which they would usually end up killing at some point and giving up on the hobby.

 

[JoeR]

She should get a seedling or starter. A person should learn to tend a tree in a pot before they add in wire and training. Bonsai is 80% horticulture. Whenever someone asks me for a bonsai, I give them a seedling with a year or two on it. If they can keep it alive for 2-3 years then they are ready to start with bonsai. A seedling costs about $10 max where a "bonsai" starts at around $50. cheaper mistakes on a seedling.

I feel like that's an easy way to turn people away from bonsai though ; a single seedling for 2-3 years? That would bore most people and make them not interested I'd say. keeping a tree alive in a pot is not as hard as people make it seem to be.

 

[JoeR]

A seedling isn't a bonsai. Most people starting out in bonsai want a bonsai. Not a twig.
Also most bonsai are created from large trees cut down to be bonsai. Giving someone new a seedling is nice but then they have to wait for it to grow so they can cut it down to build the bonsai.


Chinese elms don't start out with small eaves but as you keep them in check through pruning the leaves naturally get smaller.

Most bonsai are made from cutting large trees down? Since when? Most masterpiece bonsai, take any of Bill Valavanis' trees or really any Japanese master's for example, started as seedlings or cuttings. That, or are collected conifers.

 

[sorce]

I think collected shit material is better for a newb.

Seedlings tend to be more vigorous and just don't act like a bigger tree.

This....

As everything.....

Is only a matter of balance.

The most important thing is we keep people trying!

Sorce

 

[music~maker]

Most bonsai are made from cutting large trees down? Since when? Most masterpiece bonsai, take any of Bill Valavanis' trees or really any Japanese master's for example, started as seedlings or cuttings. That, or are collected conifers.

No matter what, you have to scale the tree up before you cut it back to lock in your progress. Whether the tree grows 1 foot, or 3 feet, or 12 feet before you do that, it's still a process of scaling up and scaling down to get at something interesting.

As instructive and rewarding as I personally think it is to develop early-stage material, most people starting out aren't ready for a 8-10 year trunk development project followed by a 3-5 year branch development project, just to get something they can finally put in a bonsai pot 15+ years later.

Not to mention, keeping a tiny seedling in a bonsai pot like I see most beginners do is even less rewarding because the trunk never develops. It usually takes them a few years to figure that out (time spent not doing bonsai), and then they correct it and put it in a larger pot or the ground to do it right (even more time spent not doing bonsai).

I coach newbies all the time - best thing for somebody with only 1 or 2 trees is to have something more established so they can begin to understand how a somewhat developed tree works. How to keep it alive, how it grows, how to prune it, how it responds to pruning, etc, etc. If they're serious students and are interested in getting some seedlings going in addition to that, I always encourage them to, but people should understand the level of project they're signing up for when they start a seedling.

 

[GailC]

A seedling would turn her off for sure. I understand your reasoning but most newbie's want something that at least resembles a tree.

I agree that local dug trees or nursery stock are the best to learn on and for the most part, she has agreed to go that route.
At the same time, she wants a "bonsai" right now. She is young and impatient.

I'm trying to help her find something that will satisfy her but not cost much.

I'll try to talk her out of the elm for now, get her to wait until the nurseries open to find something fat as she is convinced she wants a sumo style.

 

[sorce]

@GailC

I am delighted with your avatar!

Sorce

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Why not a cheap s-shaped mallsai Chinese elm? She would then need to repot, trunk chop and re-grow the branch structure (lot's of learning and things to do). They already have a relatively fat trunk so it's half-way between a seedling and a 'bonsai'.

 

[GailC]

I am delighted with your avatar!

Ah thank you, so am I lol.

Why not a cheap s-shaped mallsai Chinese elm? She would then need to repot, trunk chop and re-grow the branch structure (lot's of learning and things to do). They already have a relatively fat trunk so it's half-way between a seedling and a 'bonsai'.

I tried talking her into one but she wasn't very interested. I'll suggest it again. I'm about ready to go dig up a maple and stuff it in a pot for her. The wild ones are tough and it would giver her something to tend too.

 

[M. Frary]

Most bonsai are made from cutting large trees down? Since when?

Oh I don't know,a few years now.
I'll bet Bill didn't grow his first bonsai from seed. He cut a maple down to size and grew it back out.
You don't think most masterpiece bonsai aren't large trees cut down then regrown? How do you think they get all of that dramatic taper in the trunk on those trees? It just shows up after the tree has been in a pot for 50 years?
And that goes for conifers too. You ever hear of sacrifice branches?

 

[Tieball]

A seedling would turn her off for sure. I understand your reasoning but most newbie's want something that at least resembles a tree.

I agree that local dug trees or nursery stock are the best to learn on and for the most part, she has agreed to go that route.
At the same time, she wants a "bonsai" right now. She is young and impatient.

I'm trying to help her find something that will satisfy her but not cost much.

I'll try to talk her out of the elm for now, get her to wait until the nurseries open to find something fat as she is convinced she wants a sumo style.

Have either of you contacted a nearby Bonsai Club? Getting involved in the process through a club can be helpful....even if just attending, observing and asking a lot of questions....a lot of questions. Most people in the clubs enjoy talking. And then....pop the questionabout the tree you're looking for....you might just find a great answer...and a tree. Locally, the club can also advise of good tree material in the area suitable for your climate and care potential. Then, bring that tree to the club gatherings and learn. Just a thought.

Youth is great. Impatience is not that good in bonsai. The health of a tree requires regular work.