Cascade/Wooden grow pot for training

[Japonicus]

Hey Bonsai Nuts. This cascade forum doesn't seem to get as much traffic as others.

With the help of several, I'm learning how to make my own bonsai soil and a cedar grow pot.
I could buy the cedar box on Amazon for more money, but I have a bit of fun selecting the planks
and making my own grow box. It will be plain Jane, nothing fancy. Maybe top and bottom trim...maybe.

So this pic was taken this January

Basically it rests in a 7x7" silly blue pot. The cedar box is 11x11" I.D. and 7-3/16 tall.
Plans are to add 2" all the way around the roots, and go a little, more shallow (5"), to radiate the nebari more
and still have some depth too. The root ball will be reduced some when I pot it up.

Question I put forth here about this...will this plan work effectively?
...and what would you do besides sending the cascade back further away, for the future style of this tree?
Guess I should make a youtube video of it on the turntable and post that.

 

[Japonicus]

Should the grow box be taller or the roots more shallow?
The cascade is roughly 8" below the rim of the pot, 9" growth above.
I'm not styling the lowest region, (sorry don't know the terms or body parts yet)
as I'm trying to keep it strong.

 

[Stan Kengai]

This plant is already styled. Letting the plant grow larger will ruin the shape. Why do you want to put it in a grow box? The pot that it is in looks plenty big, if not too big, already.

 

[Japonicus]

This plant is already styled. Letting the plant grow larger will ruin the shape. Why do you want to put it in a grow box? The pot that it is in looks plenty big, if not too big, already.

Hi Stan. Thanks for the reply. It's not formal, but nothing I do is, thus the pot it is in.
I like the size, weight, and depth of this pot but not going to pay for a cascade pot at this time.
It needs repotting and breaking dormancy now as is most of my junipers.
I don't really care for the shape and colour of the pot, and I wasn't going to do complex mitering
to create a tapered grow box either. The box will be cooler in the Summer too.

I was thinking the trunk could bulk up and let the cascade take care of that with all the new energy
keeping a sacrifice leader till once again repotted.
However that next potting session, would require a bit more root reduction, and be more stressful.
There's a few things that need attention.
I don't like the barbell but cannot foresee removing either.

What would you do with the cascades position. It comes across the front of the trunks viewing area
sharply, but does fall under the apex. Again, I'm not much into formality, so suggest away.

 

[Japonicus]

Though I don't care for the shape of the pot the shoe has fit.
This is one of my least concerned pots when the wind blows.
The only other pot I have I'm concerned with wind gusts any less
is dome shaped, very aero dynamic. Still susceptible, but fairs better.

I can't find pictures of any of my bonsai before 2009.
The earliest picture I have of this tree to date, is May 2011

This was nursery stock that I've had longer than that, but I got my plant
labels and will screw to the back of the wooden box.
The pic here May 8, 2011, may be the last time this juniper was repotted.
I might have left it in the pot once more recently, and replaced the soil 1" in,
around the circumference of the roots. I really can't remember, so these labels
and digital copies (memories) will help me journal, or document its useful life.

 

[Japonicus]

reposting this pic to bring closer to view the 7 year time difference so you
don't have to scroll back n forth so much.

I twisted the tree counterclockwise and wired the cascade to the left changing the front,
basically rotating the pot clockwise with the tree fixed and opening up the newly
exposed front a bit. The tree has come into balance. I am happy with this.

Perhaps @Vance Wood would have some direction, particularly what to do with the roots at this point?
There's been no wire on this juniper for at least 2 years, only pinching and pruning.

 

[Japonicus]

I'm not good with my DSLR for videos using the auto focus, so it loses focus
here when I zoom out from the top of the soil/roots and I had no idea it had lost focus.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="

" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[sorce]

I have really been on a "Cause and effect" kick lately....

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction....

We know the reaction to this action.....

only pinching and pruning

Is No, or less growth. ..

So to get growth, the opposite action is required.....no pruning!

Especially for a juniper, reliant on foliage, where more roots, for all Bonsai intents and purposes.....won't cause more growth, contrary, the root disturbance and new "soil/water" situation, will likely act as a confuser, setting this tree back.....

All because we forgot that simple equal and opposite lesson!

Juniper is one of those trees that just never need more room for roots. You can probly aerate the soil yearly and left properly watered it can likely grow to any size in that "simulated rock pocket" you have it in....

I'd put it in a smaller pot. And still let it run to get that growth.....which it will grow....

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I have really been on a "Cause and effect" kick lately....

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction....

We know the reaction to this action.....


Is No, or less growth. ..

So to get growth, the opposite action is required.....no pruning!

Especially for a juniper, reliant on foliage, where more roots, for all Bonsai intents and purposes.....won't cause more growth, contrary, the root disturbance and new "soil/water" situation, will likely act as a confuser, setting this tree back.....

All because we forgot that simple equal and opposite lesson!

Juniper is one of those trees that just never need more room for roots. You can probly aerate the soil yearly and left properly watered it can likely grow to any size in that "simulated rock pocket" you have it in....

I'd put it in a smaller pot. And still let it run to get that growth.....which it will grow....

Sorce

Hi Sorce. Thanks for the reply. I never thought the new room for roots and soil could confuse the bonsai
and perhaps set it back. I've never had a juniper balk at repotting to a larger container though.

I know the nebari is nill to nothing. I've never dug down to reach a nebari as I'm reading on here that folks do.
Given that bit of info Sorce, how would you attack the root zone?
Remove 1/3 from the bottom, maybe up to 1/2 mass if root ball was not weak, was going to be my approach.
But now I'm wondering about the nebari since I won't be doing that much work above soil.

Nothing wrong with ...

I have really been on a "Cause and effect" kick lately....

Nature never stops. So I should give pause and consider that.

As to the rock pocket, ok, you've discouraged me from the grow box, and that's a good thing I take it...
but, I like this size pot. Would it be advantageous to acid wash the glaze, and paint it brown and use the pot it is in?
I'm not asking you to like it, and shucks, I may bust the pot trying to get the juniper out of it in which case I would
ground grow it for a year. I could make an Aspen log pot, but a lot of work for little return time as it will rot quick.
Would be a nice white colour scheme and cooler temps too.

 

[sorce]

I love the tree! And I would be lying if I said I know it's best path !

But I would kill to have a juniper 5 years in a small pot!

That pot, acid washed, or any other!

Do it! If time exists it is on your side!

Acid washed for 5 more!

A great one in 30!

I feel like leetimg it grow without pinching is the boost you need....
Where allowing it more roots, more room, of this does work for growth, will be a boost pushing this out of refined....

Seems you have a wonderful position of control right there!

Love !

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

...But I would kill to have a juniper 5 years in a small pot!...

Thanks Sorce! If I'm missing an opportunity to improve the presentation here
what (wide stance) sized pot would you shoot for? This is ~7x7".
Really sucks when you come home and find a busted tree on the ground the wind had blown off of the porch rail.
Been thinking about digging out a (I believe Pfitzer) juniper I pulled from a landscape
years ago that appears to have overgrown beyond my capabilities and making a display
area for a few of my trees, but that would expose them more readily to theft really when
door to door foot traffic comes through or just night walkers looking for unlocked car doors.
Would be a fantastic area for a Wilsons Pink maple bonsai.
Really miss the one that I lost with a Kamagata maple. They had their similarities.
Anyway, weight against the wind really helps. so can't do a tapered in foot for a pot.

My sister in law has a kiln that I'm trying to get specs on. She makes her own halloween characters
and paints them, so thought I'd inquire about making my own. I'm clueless.

 

[sorce]

what (wide stance) sized pot would you shoot for

I went looking back at the video....

I can't seem to find a very good shot of the tree and pot together that give a good idea of pot size proportion....

But a 7in square...maybe 6in...
With a Little taper and maybe an inch or so more height....since this is a fairly long tree.

Maybe shoot for even a bit more narrow and tall.

I gotta throw some feet on another big rectangle this morning, after which, I'll slap up a version of something that might work with this for S&G..if you like it I'll give you dibs!
I gotta get a move on on some large conifer cascades anyway!

Get to that kiln inquiry! Find out what cone it fires to and if you have any questions I'd love to try to help!

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I went looking back at the video....

I can't seem to find a very good shot of the tree and pot together that give a good idea of pot size proportion....
.

sorry about that, having to go back over that again. That was my 1st bonsai video, I do better with pics

But a 7in square...maybe 6in...
With a Little taper and maybe an inch or so more height....since this is a fairly long tree.

Maybe shoot for even a bit more narrow and tall.

I gotta throw some feet on another big rectangle this morning, after which, I'll slap up a version of something that might work with this for S&G..if you like it I'll give you dibs!
I gotta get a move on on some large conifer cascades anyway!

Get to that kiln inquiry! Find out what cone it fires to and if you have any questions I'd love to try to help!

Sorce

Ok getting caught up a little. The kiln not accessible till mid April at earliest...classes.
My wife said why not just buy one...
While out walking around the house checking the bonsai for water I found this glazed Korean pot
that has had nothing but poison ivy and moss growing in it for several years.
It has suffered freeze damage being healed into the ground.

I have a built in fear, more a bad luck mojo hanging over me when I reuse a pot another bonsai has died in.
Bleached with soapy water eases my mind a bit though. Like an obsessive compulsive hunger filled,
it's like a chalk board wiped clean, or so I tell myself.

The volume probably is about the same between these 2 pots.
The blue marble won't fit down inside the square Korean pot.
Instead of 7x7 round, this one is 7.5 x 7.5 x 5. It has a substantial foundational weight to it.
It's free...but may need to fill with bondo and sand/paint the whole pot.

 

[Japonicus]

confusing how I captioned under the pic, "The volume probably is about the same between these 2 pots."
I mean between the blue marble and the square one. The taller crapy one will probably never be used on my porch.
It is a sail in the wind. Too narrow and too tall due to water table.

 

[sorce]

It's free

You know I love free! But dont put your lovely tree in there!

My wife said why not just buy one...

?

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

Unfortunately I potted nothing up today. I did do some work on a neglected junipers top soil
and hoping I didn't get poison ivy. I am allergic to it, and with no leaves this time of year...

@sorce This pot is a bit smaller. More than I wanted to pay, and the next size up is + $20 and 2 more pounds.
https://www.amazon.com/Boutique-Med.../B01GP7K7M2/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_1_dp
I do like the colour though and the base looks somewhat stable.

 

[sorce]

Unfortunately I potted nothing up today. I did do some work on a neglected junipers top soil
and hoping I didn't get poison ivy. I am allergic to it, and with no leaves this time of year...

@sorce This pot is a bit smaller. More than I wanted to pay, and the next size up is + $20 and 2 more pounds.
https://www.amazon.com/Boutique-Med.../B01GP7K7M2/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_clickstream_1_dp
I do like the colour though and the base looks somewhat stable.

Perfect!

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

You know I love free! But dont put your lovely tree in there!



?

Sorce

Thanks for the kind words Sorce!
You mean you don't like my Korean pot with character?

Watch my pendulum and repeat after me...haha

I will order the Yixing pot this evening. Thanks for your valuable input buddy.
To be honest with you, I think I was more skeptical of the new soil mix I put together
being why I potted up absolutely nothing today. Everything I touched today, 4 bonsai, appeared to
need potting up, and my wife talking about going to sunny So. Cal. in May, and I'm just not
at ease with leaving my trees unattended, but I never will be at ease with that.
I am a worry wart and would not have a good day if I had nothing to worry about.
Now is a wane, and the roots are stirring. I think now is a good time for me to get started.
At least I've re-familiarlized myself with some of my trees removing all the top dressing
and attending the nebari some with a toothbrush and water stream. Not a wasted day by any means.

 

[Japonicus]

Should these 2 aerial roots be removed?

This ^ pic is taken from the back side

This pic ^ is from just left of the intended front viewing area looking down.

The front root being the one that comes off the trunk at 90º or 3 O'clock
crosses another root then turns back 90º again, is directly off of the cascade.

Tack down the back one and remove the front one that crosses back?
and if I remove either or both of these will that affect branches as does with mugho? ("symbiotic relationship")
The front one crosses back and is confusing looking.
I don't think I can rake out that much roots, that far into the rootball this repotting/current health.
Vertical pie slices would probably be best if I knew what I was doing to keep the roots,
but is there any reason to keep them?

 

[sorce]

there any reason to keep them?

I was thinking about that when watching the video the other day.....

Nebari on juniper isn't as revered as on a maple say, especially on such a lovely cascade, it's not likely anyone will ever stop at a "poor Nebari" on this tree.

I would assess them at repot. Maybe remove one.

But I like to jam em into place with a "live or die" attitude over cutting em in this scenario.

If you still don't like it later, just snip em off at the trunk and soil line later and remove the old dead root later.
Or just leave it till next repot!

But....as far as health goes... I doubt you'll need em....
Not that tgis really needs more health or vigor....but it still seems a few runners would be all that is needed for said health and vigor, if removing the roots or not!

This really is an impressive tree....
And I love that simple pot!

Cant wait to see it paired up!

Sorce