Cascade Elm Potential?

AaronThomas

AaronThomas

Omono
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Location
Tucson, AZ
USDA Zone
8A
Hey Nuts!
So here is an elm I've been playing with for a few years... When I bought it, it was one of those upright everyday "S" curved elms (still has the curve but not as much as it did in the beginning). I planted at an angle and about 4 years ago I chopped the upper portion of the trunk and was lucky enough to get a nice long leader to grow. Overtime it became thicker so last year I wired the leader into... well another "S". I took the wire off this year and potted in a larger pot where I'm not going to mess with it for a few seasons in hopes that the leader will thicken up a bit more and the base of the trunk will become a bit larger. Tree seems to be doing quite well in its new soil (thanks @markyscott).... still budding out
Just wondering if any of you have any suggestions as to how to continue.....
Thanks!
IMG_8476.jpgIMG_8478.jpg
 
I don't know about a cascade but I don't know how the hell you got that branch so thin all the way out to there either and that's pretty amazing....

So keep going!

There's hundreds of shit elms you could take a different direction.

Keep this path with this one IMO.

Sorce
 
Thanks @sorce.... I'm definitely liking this more than the generic "S" type elm. I really dig these two examples of a cascade and a a semi-cascade. Perhaps when I re-pot ill plant at even more of an angle.
4907a67f01902cfd56305285ab6d7b8d.jpgwhen_p14.jpg
 
Last edited:
AaronThomas said:
... potted in a larger pot where I'm not going to mess with it for a few seasons in hopes that the leader will thicken up a bit more and the base of the trunk will become a bit larger...
Click to expand...

Hi Aaron. Nice to see your elm doing well. Consider putting some millled sphagnum on the soil surface. It will do better and reduce evaporation losses. And start feeding - you want to see some strong growth.

Right now you’re developing trunk. The branches don’t matter - those come later. To develop trunk, you are developing girth, taper and movement. To get girth, you let it grow. To get taper you cut it back. To get movement, you wire (and cut back). So how do you do that? How do you get both girth and taper? Well - you’re going to pick a leader and let it extend. You can cut back the side branches to encourage the leader to extend. It should be able to grow 6-7’ in a season in your climate. Wire it so it grows more or less vertically from the end of the long branch that you’re growing. It will look weird. Early next spring cut it back - way back. Then the next season - repeat, except when you wire the new leader, let it grow out and then wire it down as an extension of the cascading trunk line for a few inches before you wire it vertically. Every season repeat - grow several feet of leader to add a couple of inches of trunk. After a few years, you’ll have a nice cascading trunk line with movement and taper. Then you can start working on branches.

Anyway - that’s my 2cents. You’ve got a good start, so start building a tree!

S
 
My S elm died...??

Have you considered planting it in a colander or air pot of sorts?
I hear tell that ground growing is best to thicken...and maybe colander with escape roots into ground is best of both worlds...
Right @Anthony ???

I'm gonna try it, when I have the chance...maybe next year.
 
just.wing.it said:
Have you considered planting it in a colander or air pot of sorts?
Click to expand...
I have not... I would be afraid in my climate that both would dry out pretty quick.... as it is I'm watering almost everyday. (I don't mind... I like it... but I'm ripping through the ferts (: )
I should have planted in a much larger container but did not have one on hand. I have a small elm growing in a similar size pot (root over rock) and it has exploded in girth in the 2 seasons since I potted it... was hoping the same for this tree!
 
AaronThomas said:
I have not... I would be afraid in my climate that both would dry out pretty quick.... as it is I'm watering almost everyday. (I don't mind... I like it... but I'm ripping through the ferts :) )
I should have planted in a much larger container but did not have one on hand. I have a small elm growing in a similar size pot (root over rock) and it has exploded in girth in the 2 seasons since I potted it... was hoping the same for this tree!
Click to expand...
Ahh, I hear you there... Ten4 buddy!
Keep up the good work!
 
A few years....
That growth....
And this...where you only pruned the roots and are thinking of not pruning the top till next spring ? as if that is normal.....

You should be able to prune the Furk out of this thing....

Seems like it might not be getting enough water.

Sorce
 
sorce said:
as if that is normal.....
Click to expand...
Bhahahah... figured you'd be proud of me for not jumping the gun and taking my time. You know me!!! I'm the instant bonsai guy! Trying to turn over a new leaf...
Your right... after all it is an elm and they are super forgiving.
This tree has been in a much smaller vertical pot for some time and really wanted to see what would happen as far as growth in a larger pot.
Proud of this little guy... total transformation from what it was. Just want to make sure I do it right.
PS... Plenty of water and Jacks!
 
I don't know if were joking or not....:p

Or what we're talking about really....o_O

But The "like this is normal" is just how I've been viewing my elms for 7 years!

I've had one season of "Elm Like" growth on one elm ever....
Found out it existed, like 4 years ago?

Never had growth like that again.
Even that tree was repotted in spring that year, (read bad) so I STILL don't really know what healthy elm growth is!

So I don't know what healthy growth on elm really looks like yet.

That's why I feel this is "not normal".

NO ONE SUCKS ULMUS BALLS LIKE ME!

Don't you suck at Ulnus too!

Sorce
 
I think I miss understood your post...o_Oo_Oo_O
I'm not sure if its normal... this is the first and so far only trunk chop I have ever done on an elm. I'm sure that there must have been some luck involved because only the one leader grew... and I mean it grew! I have no problem taking full credit for it though ;) . As far as growth goes on my other elms... I can tell you they get unruly with growth quickly this time of year and then again toward the end of August. Plenty of sun and ferts and water and they are happy little trees.
Side note... haven't talked to you much since you moved to the new place! Hope you lovin it!
 
sorce said:
I don't know what healthy growth on elm really looks like yet.
Click to expand...
Quit feeding them fish crap and use some miracle grow.
Plus lots of water and as much sun as possible. They prefer sun all the live long day.
Drive them like you stole them.
Then you'll see right quick how elms can grow.
Power leaves!
 
AaronThomas said:
In January I root pruned for the re-pot so probably should wait till next spring huh?
Click to expand...

Sorry to not respond earlier. It sounds as if it didn’t lose its leaves over winter - that’s common in warmer climates. I didn’t see much extension and I was wondering if you’d already had your spring push and you’d pruned the top back already. So my answer is this. If you haven’t had your spring push and what we’re looking at is hardened off leaves from last growing season, now is a good time to prune. If the tree has leafed out and the shoots have extended, but you’ve cut it back; A) don’t do that anymore and B) it’s not a good time to prune.

M. Frary said:
Quit feeding them fish crap and use some miracle grow.
Plus lots of water and as much sun as possible. They prefer sun all the live long day.
Drive them like you stole them.
Then you'll see right quick how elms can grow.
Power leaves!
Click to expand...

Not to start another fertilizer discussion, but I believe that what you use is far less important than the fact that you use it regularly. I personally believe that organics are better for promoting a good microbial environment in the pot, but I think that’s in the weeds relative to ensuring your tree has access to adequate macro- and micro-nutrients during the growing season. Mike is right that with an inorganic soil with low CEC, most of us probably fertilize far less frequently than we should. I have a sphagnum top dressing (high CEC) with organic fertilizer bags on top of the sphagnum to encourage surface roots. I’ve also moved to a system that delivers a dilute liquid fertilizer with every watering. With it I’ve used fish emulsion + kelp, miracle gro, and microlife liquid. All good! Just get educated about the advantages and disadvantages of each and look at the cautions with application. The link above is a nice summary.

S
 
markyscott said:
... So my answer is this. If you haven’t had your spring push and what we’re looking at is hardened off leaves from last growing season, now is a good time to prune. If the tree has leafed out and the shoots have extended, but you’ve cut it back; A) don’t do that anymore and B) it’s not a good time to prune...
Click to expand...

One more thing. If the tree has leafed out in spring and what we’re looking at is the result of the spring push and you haven’t cut it back. Don’t prune. The tree is weak. Focus on growth.

S
 
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