Carving a Bougainvillea

[cbrshadow23]

I dug up a big bougainvillea recently and would like to try my hand at carving off the deadwood. There's currently a lot of deadwood (left side of the picture below) where the plant was chopped by the previous owner many years ago.

Just a few questions:
1) Do I need one of the super expensive ($100) bonsai carving bits, or will something from Lowes do a fine job? This is for a corded Dremel tool that I already own.
2) I've read that if I leave any deadwood that I should seal it. What is a good sealer? I see Lowes/Home Depot carry a "Minwax Wood Hardener" which is what I'm thinking I'll use. Thoughts?
3) Should I carve away most of the deadwood on the left side of the plant? The 2nd picture I posted shows the line that I hope to be the new trunkline after carving.

Any tips would be appreciated!

 

[Clicio]

I dug up a big bougainvillea recently and would like to try my hand at carving off the deadwood. There's currently a lot of deadwood (left side of the picture below) where the plant was chopped by the previous owner many years ago.

Nice bougie!

 

[cbrshadow23]

Nice bougie!

Thanks! I dug this one up thinking it was a little 2" trunk. I nearly passed on the opportunity to collect it since it was "so small" haha. Just below the surface was a giant plant that had been cut back many times over many years. It weighs over 100 lbs. Right now it's just a big stump, but I'm hoping to turn it into something impressive in the future.

 

[BonsaiDTLA]

For sealing deadwood, I've used PC-Petrifier with great success. If you go this route, before applying it, make sure the deadwood is the color you want it.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I dug up a big bougainvillea recently and would like to try my hand at carving off the deadwood. There's currently a lot of deadwood (left side of the picture below) where the plant was chopped by the previous owner many years ago.

Just a few questions:
1) Do I need one of the super expensive ($100) bonsai carving bits, or will something from Lowes do a fine job? This is for a corded Dremel tool that I already own.
2) I've read that if I leave any deadwood that I should seal it. What is a good sealer? I see Lowes/Home Depot carry a "Minwax Wood Hardener" which is what I'm thinking I'll use. Thoughts?
3) Should I carve away most of the deadwood on the left side of the plant? The 2nd picture I posted shows the line that I hope to be the new trunkline after carving.

Any tips would be appreciated!

1. - You do not "need" any of the expensive "bonsai carving bits", but you may find that the over the counter bits might not last as long as some of the "bonsai carving bits". I would go cheap first. If you don't like the results, you can upgrade later. You might use a saws-all, reciprocating saw to take out some of the bulk, or if you happen to have a die grinder, use that to remove some of the bulk. In the end, many prefer to use hand tools, either a gouge, or a chisel, or even just a pliers to pull individual cellulose threads of wood off for the final finish. Rough in your carving first, then use hand tools or new bits to do the last final carving touches.

2. There are 3 different approaches for handling wood. There are wood sealers, which restore natural oils to wood to keep it water proof, there are wood hardeners which really are only needed for punky, soft, rotting wood, and there are wood preservatives, which include biocides that prevent bacteria and fungi from decomposing the wood. Personally I have had trouble with wood hardeners becoming cloudy, and changing the appearance of the wood. After time they look like plastic laminate was melted to your wood. Chosen well, wood hardener is good for rotting wood, but in general for bonsai, if wood has gone this far we just scrape it out.

Lime sulfur is the go too wood preservative. The lime-sulfur bleaches the wood towards a white color, and it kills bacteria and fungi. It is caustic, which is part of its "biocide" activity. Not everyone likes the color that lime sulfur creates, a bit too stark a white color. You can dilute the lime sulfur to 50% to get a less dramatic color change. Dilution beyond 50% leaves you a product that really doesn't work, too dilute, and the lime sulfur looses its ability to kill fungi & bacteria, and looses it ability to bleach the wood. Some will add water based mineral tints to their lime-sulfur. One would be carbon black, or lamp black, to get a darker color. You could also add burnt umber, or red ochre, to get more a yellow brown or a red-brown tint to the lime sulfur. Lime sulfur is a good preservative for general bonsai use, there is a lot of information about using it in the bonsai literature.

Wood sealers. These are ideal especially for wood recently turned into deadwood. And for wood that is exposed and is not in contact with the soil. Wood sealers are generally based on the idea of restoring the natural resin content to the wood. The "original" wood sealer is boiled linseed oil (often labelled as just linseed oil) available from any paint store that handles oil based paint for painting houses. Thompsons Water Seal is based on linseed oil, with a bunch of additives. I would just use linseed oil for above the soil work. You could also use pine resin, dissolve pine resin, from pitch pine, pinion pine or any other pine species, dissolve the resin in mineral spirits. For either linseed oil or pine resin, paint your deadwood with the solution. It will soak in and leave a dry look fairly rapidly. Apply a second coat, let dry. When it takes about 24 hours to look dry you have penetrated the wood about as much as possible with external painting it on techniques. Your done for a year or two.

Lime sulfur and Linseed oil or pine resin should be reapplied every 2 to 5 years, whenever the wood seems to be dry. By keep the wood protected with natural resins or oils as in linseed oil, the wood is rendered water proof, and without internal water, rot will not take hold.

3. How much should you carve? That is up to you. I would go slow. You have enough wood there on the left that you could create deadwood branches that don't currently exist. Hell, if you are good with wood carving, you could carve in faces, creatures, branches, a whole scene if you want. It all depends on what your "mind's eye" can come up with. Are you an experience woodcarver? If yes, the pallet is yours, create away. If you are not experienced, your red line is safe and a conservative option. Take that big chunk of wood down in stages, so that you can change your design as you get closer to your red line.

Does this help?

 

[cbrshadow23]

1. - You do not "need" any of the expensive "bonsai carving bits", but you may find that the over the counter bits might not last as long as some of the "bonsai carving bits". I would go cheap first. If you don't like the results, you can upgrade later. You might use a saws-all, reciprocating saw to take out some of the bulk, or if you happen to have a die grinder, use that to remove some of the bulk. In the end, many prefer to use hand tools, either a gouge, or a chisel, or even just a pliers to pull individual cellulose threads of wood off for the final finish. Rough in your carving first, then use hand tools or new bits to do the last final carving touches.

2. There are 3 different approaches for handling wood. There are wood sealers, which restore natural oils to wood to keep it water proof, there are wood hardeners which really are only needed for punky, soft, rotting wood, and there are wood preservatives, which include biocides that prevent bacteria and fungi from decomposing the wood. Personally I have had trouble with wood hardeners becoming cloudy, and changing the appearance of the wood. After time they look like plastic laminate was melted to your wood. Chosen well, wood hardener is good for rotting wood, but in general for bonsai, if wood has gone this far we just scrape it out.

Lime sulfur is the go too wood preservative. The lime-sulfur bleaches the wood towards a white color, and it kills bacteria and fungi. It is caustic, which is part of its "biocide" activity. Not everyone likes the color that lime sulfur creates, a bit too stark a white color. You can dilute the lime sulfur to 50% to get a less dramatic color change. Dilution beyond 50% leaves you a product that really doesn't work, too dilute, and the lime sulfur looses its ability to kill fungi & bacteria, and looses it ability to bleach the wood. Some will add water based mineral tints to their lime-sulfur. One would be carbon black, or lamp black, to get a darker color. You could also add burnt umber, or red ochre, to get more a yellow brown or a red-brown tint to the lime sulfur. Lime sulfur is a good preservative for general bonsai use, there is a lot of information about using it in the bonsai literature.

Wood sealers. These are ideal especially for wood recently turned into deadwood. And for wood that is exposed and is not in contact with the soil. Wood sealers are generally based on the idea of restoring the natural resin content to the wood. The "original" wood sealer is boiled linseed oil (often labelled as just linseed oil) available from any paint store that handles oil based paint for painting houses. Thompsons Water Seal is based on linseed oil, with a bunch of additives. I would just use linseed oil for above the soil work. You could also use pine resin, dissolve pine resin, from pitch pine, pinion pine or any other pine species, dissolve the resin in mineral spirits. For either linseed oil or pine resin, paint your deadwood with the solution. It will soak in and leave a dry look fairly rapidly. Apply a second coat, let dry. When it takes about 24 hours to look dry you have penetrated the wood about as much as possible with external painting it on techniques. Your done for a year or two.

Lime sulfur and Linseed oil or pine resin should be reapplied every 2 to 5 years, whenever the wood seems to be dry. By keep the wood protected with natural resins or oils as in linseed oil, the wood is rendered water proof, and without internal water, rot will not take hold.

3. How much should you carve? That is up to you. I would go slow. You have enough wood there on the left that you could create deadwood branches that don't currently exist. Hell, if you are good with wood carving, you could carve in faces, creatures, branches, a whole scene if you want. It all depends on what your "mind's eye" can come up with. Are you an experience woodcarver? If yes, the pallet is yours, create away. If you are not experienced, your red line is safe and a conservative option. Take that big chunk of wood down in stages, so that you can change your design as you get closer to your red line.

Does this help?

Thank you for such a detailed response. This was really helpful.
Do I need to worry about getting lime sulphur or any other preservative on live wood? For example if I carve down most of the deadwood and hit live wood, do I risk killing the tree if I get lime sulphur into that opening?
Do I risk hurting the tree if I carve into the live parts of the tree a bit? I assume to purpose of carving is just to shape the existing deadwood, not change the surface of live areas.. correct?
Where is a good place to buy lime sulphur? It sounds like that's the best way to go. We'll have to see how the white carving looks on my bougainvillea
Currently the deadwood varies between being very hard and somewhat flaky. I can crumble some of it off by hand, but some is quite hard.

Thanks again for so much information!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thank you for such a detailed response. This was really helpful.
Do I need to worry about getting lime sulphur or any other preservative on live wood? For example if I carve down most of the deadwood and hit live wood, do I risk killing the tree if I get lime sulphur into that opening?
Do I risk hurting the tree if I carve into the live parts of the tree a bit? I assume to purpose of carving is just to shape the existing deadwood, not change the surface of live areas.. correct?
Where is a good place to buy lime sulphur? It sounds like that's the best way to go. We'll have to see how the white carving looks on my bougainvillea
Currently the deadwood varies between being very hard and somewhat flaky. I can crumble some of it off by hand, but some is quite hard.

Thanks again for so much information!

Lime sulfur will kill live tissue. Though it is not "extremely" toxic, it is not like Roundup. If you get a little lime sulfur on live wood, or live cambium, dab it off with a damp cloth, and the tree should be fine. Repeated painting of live wood with lime sulfur will kill the live wood. The wood hardeners are rough on live wood. Interestingly, linseed oil, and pine resins diluted into mineral spirits are pretty benign. Very unlikely to harm cambium or live wood.

As you actually get into doing it, carving is pretty self explanatory. You can kill live wood by carving into it. Obviously, the carving tool will remove live and dead wood equally. Gone is gone.

Yes, you can reshape both live and dead wood. The trick with removing live wood is to be cautious about severing the "life lines", the connections between the roots and the foliage. In conifers, especially Juniper, there often is a near one to one, root to branch connection. Carving livewood, to create a deadwood feature on a trunk may in fact kill off a branch if you break the connection between a branch and the roots that feed it. Most trees, have some capacity to re-route connections when the trunk is damaged, either by the wood carver or by insects. Juniper is relatively poor at creating new connections. Deciduous trees or broadleaf evergreens are usually pretty good at re-routing connections.

So carving into live parts of the tree, if just a little, is no big deal, but if it is a lot, you need to think about which connections you are cutting. You may loose certain branches.

 

[cbrshadow23]

Lime sulfur will kill live tissue. Though it is not "extremely" toxic, it is not like Roundup. If you get a little lime sulfur on live wood, or live cambium, dab it off with a damp cloth, and the tree should be fine. Repeated painting of live wood with lime sulfur will kill the live wood. The wood hardeners are rough on live wood. Interestingly, linseed oil, and pine resins diluted into mineral spirits are pretty benign. Very unlikely to harm cambium or live wood.

As you actually get into doing it, carving is pretty self explanatory. You can kill live wood by carving into it. Obviously, the carving tool will remove live and dead wood equally. Gone is gone.

Yes, you can reshape both live and dead wood. The trick with removing live wood is to be cautious about severing the "life lines", the connections between the roots and the foliage. In conifers, especially Juniper, there often is a near one to one, root to branch connection. Carving livewood, to create a deadwood feature on a trunk may in fact kill off a branch if you break the connection between a branch and the roots that feed it. Most trees, have some capacity to re-route connections when the trunk is damaged, either by the wood carver or by insects. Juniper is relatively poor at creating new connections. Deciduous trees or broadleaf evergreens are usually pretty good at re-routing connections.

So carving into live parts of the tree, if just a little, is no big deal, but if it is a lot, you need to think about which connections you are cutting. You may loose certain branches.

Thanks for all of that information! I'm learning a ton and I've gone back and referenced your comments several times now.


So I went to Lowes and bought some carving bits for my Dremel tool and went for it. Since I didn't really know what I was doing I think I botched the job. I started by cutting off a fair amount of the deadwood 'stump' on the left side of the plant using my Sawzall. In the freshly cut area I could see lots more deadwood chipping away, and there were "tunnels" or holes in it going deeper. If I had left it that way I'd be afraid water would fill those holes over time and cause rotting in my bougainvillea, so I decided to continue to carve away using a chisel, saw, and Dremel. This continued for a very long time and kept exposing more and more "tunnels". I'm guessing that the original 'stump' on the left side was cut a very long time ago and rain water had slowly rotted out some of the plant.
Anyways, I finally decided to make a very big cut to get under all of the deadwood. This did get rid of those rotten parts, but there are still a couple "holes" to deal with. I'd hate for water to pool here. Below are some pictures. What are my options for "filling" those holes? What would you do if this were your tree?

From the front I think the tree looks pretty good overall, but from the side she's ugly. I almost want to fill that area with epoxy or something that hardens to keep it from filling with water if/when it rains.
Will these big cuts "heal over" and not look like big cuts in the future? My plan is to just shape the tree branches from here on out. Bougainvillea grow very quickly in my area.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Not bad really. From the front it looks fine.Actually a good job, especially for a first time.

Practice carving on pieces of scrap wood, or branches found laying around the yard. In all probability, neither you nor I will live long enough for the Bougie to heal over a cut that large. So eventually you will need to go back and re-dress that wound. I am not a wood carver. I'm drawing a blank on what to cut next.

So given that I don't know, and you don't know, best to leave it be. Over time ideas will come to you and you can eventually do more carving. But it looks good enough from the front right now, so I would not worry about it for a while. When inspiration strikes, you can always dive back into the project.

 

[cbrshadow23]

Not bad really. From the front it looks fine.Actually a good job, especially for a first time.

Practice carving on pieces of scrap wood, or branches found laying around the yard. In all probability, neither you nor I will live long enough for the Bougie to heal over a cut that large. So eventually you will need to go back and re-dress that wound. I am not a wood carver. I'm drawing a blank on what to cut next.

So given that I don't know, and you don't know, best to leave it be. Over time ideas will come to you and you can eventually do more carving. But it looks good enough from the front right now, so I would not worry about it for a while. When inspiration strikes, you can always dive back into the project.

Thanks for all the support - much appreciated.
I'll leave it alone for a while and let the branches develop. This guy is growing like crazy - over 1" per day on several branches, plus new sprouts coming in often. Maybe I can find a local club (once they start meeting again) to get some help with next steps on carving.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

Great looking tree so far! Please keep us up to date on this tree’s progress…

 

[willhopper]

Lime sulfur will kill live tissue. Though it is not "extremely" toxic, it is not like Roundup. If you get a little lime sulfur on live wood, or live cambium, dab it off with a damp cloth, and the tree should be fine. Repeated painting of live wood with lime sulfur will kill the live wood. The wood hardeners are rough on live wood. Interestingly, linseed oil, and pine resins diluted into mineral spirits are pretty benign. Very unlikely to harm cambium or live wood.

As you actually get into doing it, carving is pretty self explanatory. You can kill live wood by carving into it. Obviously, the carving tool will remove live and dead wood equally. Gone is gone.

Yes, you can reshape both live and dead wood. The trick with removing live wood is to be cautious about severing the "life lines", the connections between the roots and the foliage. In conifers, especially Juniper, there often is a near one to one, root to branch connection. Carving livewood, to create a deadwood feature on a trunk may in fact kill off a branch if you break the connection between a branch and the roots that feed it. Most trees, have some capacity to re-route connections when the trunk is damaged, either by the wood carver or by insects. Juniper is relatively poor at creating new connections. Deciduous trees or broadleaf evergreens are usually pretty good at re-routing connections.

So carving into live parts of the tree, if just a little, is no big deal, but if it is a lot, you need to think about which connections you are cutting. You may loose certain branches.

I realize I'm necroposting here, but I was looking for info on the vascular properties of bougainvilleas and found this. I have to completely disagree with this assessment of junipers and deciduous trees and their abilities to create new connections. In fact, I beliece it's directly the opposite of what you describe. Junipers are basically a maze of straws that will always find a way to reconnect and feed and drink. That's why stylists create all kinds of crazy shari. Deciduous trees basically have north-south veins only and if you sever them, the vein will die. It's also why you'll almost never see shari on deciduous trees.

 

[ACooke]

Oh wow, that's a beautiful trunk.

Re sealing deadwood on not only a bougie I have but other odds and ends, I've been using low viscosity cyanoacrylate glue which is essentially Super Glue.
I usually purchase off of ebay and I think from memory I've used something around the 5% range.

I believe it's fairly commonly used as a deadwood sealant. I was initially a little concerned as to whether it would turn white, or give off a glossy appearance but I've been using it a for a while now and have been happy with the outcome. It does at times give a very dull sheen - something close to what you'd expect from like a 'satin' type colour - but less sheen again that that. It's only really when you get it on a certain angle in direct sunlight. It's hardly noticeable and not enough to concern me at all but I've read of people running a wire brush or similar over it to dull it if that is an issue. The wood seems to soak it up really well before it hardens, particularly softer wood like bougainvillea's so my hope (and belief) is that it's pretty much a complete 'seal' as opposed to just 'saturating' the wood and preventing further ingress through that avenue - similar to what something like staining with oil might do (if that makes sense).

Anyway, might be something that's worth considering.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Oh wow, that's a beautiful trunk.

Re sealing deadwood on not only a bougie I have but other odds and ends, I've been using low viscosity cyanoacrylate glue which is essentially Super Glue.
I usually purchase off of ebay and I think from memory I've used something around the 5% range.

I believe it's fairly commonly used as a deadwood sealant. I was initially a little concerned as to whether it would turn white, or give off a glossy appearance but I've been using it a for a while now and have been happy with the outcome. It does at times give a very dull sheen - something close to what you'd expect from like a 'satin' type colour - but less sheen again that that. It's only really when you get it on a certain angle in direct sunlight. It's hardly noticeable and not enough to concern me at all but I've read of people running a wire brush or similar over it to dull it if that is an issue. The wood seems to soak it up really well before it hardens, particularly softer wood like bougainvillea's so my hope (and belief) is that it's pretty much a complete 'seal' as opposed to just 'saturating' the wood and preventing further ingress through that avenue - similar to what something like staining with oil might do (if that makes sense).

Anyway, might be something that's worth considering.

Yes, and no. I have seen cyanoacrylate used exactly as you describe, Often with good effect. However, my personal experience, a single use, not replicated. I used it (superglue) to harden wood on a 40 year old pomegranate. Initially all was well, but then black fungus began attacking the wood behind the layer of glue. The interior of the trunk continued to rot because the glue patch sealed moisture into the wood. Moisture was wicking into the area from the root zone below. Eventually the wood around the patch rotted enough the patch fell out. I then switched to lime sulfur, Between the lime sulfur and air exposure the rot was arrested.

Not saying all use of cyanoacrylates are bad, Just saying one must consider that they can form a water proof barrier that can seal water in resulting in continued wood rots. It is a very situation dependent use application.

So yes, sometimes good, and no, sometimes not good.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I realize I'm necroposting here, but I was looking for info on the vascular properties of bougainvilleas and found this. I have to completely disagree with this assessment of junipers and deciduous trees and their abilities to create new connections. In fact, I beliece it's directly the opposite of what you describe. Junipers are basically a maze of straws that will always find a way to reconnect and feed and drink. That's why stylists create all kinds of crazy shari. Deciduous trees basically have north-south veins only and if you sever them, the vein will die. It's also why you'll almost never see shari on deciduous trees.

You know, I never took plant physiology course, or other university botany courses. I worked in a chem lab focused on concrete for 40 years. So while I can talk "science-y", I don't have university botanical training. Though I did sleep with a PhD Botanist off and on for a decade or so, does that count?

I do have 40 or more years of growing trees with bonsai in mind. Experience I can share. I do agree that I was probably over exaggerating the issue with connection of roots to specific branches in junipers. So yes, junipers are capable to some moderate degree to reconnect when branches or roots are pruned and lines of sap or fluid flow are disrupted. But my personal hort experience leads me to the conclusion that the ability to reconnect is at best moderate. Recovery from drastic pruning is precarious. One must allow a significant amount of recovery time after aggressive work. This is in part to allow reconnections to form.

Similarly, I find deciduous trees in general are actually more tolerant of drastic pruning and root work than junipers. This would imply that reconnections form relatively easily. There are exceptions. Azalea, Rhododendrons and Vacciniums seem to have their own response patterns, different from elms and maples, and many specific groups do have different levels of response to pruning. Some are very idiosyncratic. Some, like elms, are very vigorous and reconnect well.

In fact, each group of plants, either by genus or family, seems to have unique enough traits that most bonsai books and teachers have separate guides for how and when to prune, repot and do other bonsai techniques. Hence, books for pines, junipers, maples, elms, satsuki, and many others all have group specific horticultural guidelines.

But that is my conjecture from growing experience. Not science-y stuff.

 

[Vinnie Charity]

Yes, and no. I have seen cyanoacrylate used exactly as you describe, Often with good effect. However, my personal experience, a single use, not replicated. I used it (superglue) to harden wood on a 40 year old pomegranate. Initially all was well, but then black fungus began attacking the wood behind the layer of glue. The interior of the trunk continued to rot because the glue patch sealed moisture into the wood. Moisture was wicking into the area from the root zone below. Eventually the wood around the patch rotted enough the patch fell out. I then switched to lime sulfur, Between the lime sulfur and air exposure the rot was arrested.

Not saying all use of cyanoacrylates are bad, Just saying one must consider that they can form a water proof barrier that can seal water in resulting in continued wood rots. It is a very situation dependent use application.

So yes, sometimes good, and no, sometimes not good.

I like to use both CA glue and lime sulfur.

I first saturate the rotting/punky wood with the CA glue, then use a steel bristle brush to brush the top layer of hardened glue until I reach the bare wood. Now that the wood is much harder and “bare”, it’s ready to accept lime sulfur.

I’ve been doing this for years, and I have seen very little change in the size of jins on my trees, though I do realize mileage may vary. My bougainvillea has a 2” thick trunk that is completely hollow and I only have issues deep into the trunk where it’s hard to reach.

 

[ACooke]

In the instances I've used it I've done my best to, and been able remove to, and slightly beyond all rotting wood; it also needs to be very dry in order to soak up as much CA glue as possible.
So while that doesn't give certainty to there being no further rotting behind the sealed area, I think it makes it far less likely. In saying, if I was sealing material that's very valuable to me (monetarily or otherwise), I'd be a little more cautious. I suspect your options are either to use something that arrests rot by 'saturating' but not sealing - like lime sulfur (not to mention it's sterilizing benefits) or something that seals - like CA glue, epoxy etc. I think with any true sealant you run the risk of rot behind the sealed wood, and with any saturating agent, you run the risk of continued rot as the saturation subsides.

I think any discussion about stopping rot is one that is in truth, about 'slowing' rot and the rate at which we're able to do so, which is very species dependant.

That's just my understanding anyway, which could be and probably is flawed.