Can Anyone Suggest Good Grafting Knives?

[Alex DeRuiter]

I think it's time to invest in a good grafting knife...I'm sick of using razor blades. Can anyone suggest anything good?

I've been looking at Masakuni tools lately. They're a bit pricey, but from what I hear they're worth it. I've seen some people (most recently, Smoke) us Flexcut tools, but I haven't really looked into any of their retailers.

I'm looking for a fairly inexpensive pair, of course, but I don't want to lowball it and get some crappy knife. Can anyone suggest any other brands that might be worth checking out?

 

[Umeboshi]

This is what I use; inexpensive, but high quality.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01%2E042%2E18&dept_id=13219

I think those flexcut tools are more chisel like and less for grafting although I could be wrong.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

That's awesome because I'm left handed too! lol -- Thank you for the link. That's definitely a good price. How long have you had yours?

I think you might be right about the Flexcut stuff.

 

[Umeboshi]

I have had mine for less than a year.
You will want a right handed knife if you are left handed. For grafting you want the opposite because you will be cutting towards your body instead of away.
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.041.18&dept_id=13221

Brent Walston has a great grafting tutorial that you should read, I found it very helpful.

http://bonsainurseryman.typepad.com/bonsainurseryman/2006/10/how_to_graft_fo.html

Good luck with your grafting! It takes a bit of practice but once you get the hang of it it isn't hard.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Haha, I was seriously just thinking about that...I thought maybe I'd get the double-edged one, but I probably won't use the left handed side much. Thank you for the suggestion. A year seems pretty good, but I've always been a skeptic and I wonder how long it'll last. On the other hand, I wonder if the quality of steel differs significantly between this knife and one that costs $200. . . . Hmmm.

Thank you for the links as well. I emailed Brent to see if he would suggest any particular brand too, just to add some variety. I'll report back once he responds.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Another question I had...do you use your grafting knife for air layers and cuttings too, or do you use a different set of tools for those?

 

[Umeboshi]

I use my knife for airlayers but I use typical bonsai shears for cuttings.
I do not think that you will be disappointed with the quality of that knife. It is good quality laminate steel with a single bevel and a nice flat back side, exactly what you want in a grafting knife. I think I actually learned of that source (japanwoodworker.com) from this forum. You could try doing a search here for grafting knives.

One thing that is very important when grafting is that you keep your knife as sharp as possible. You will need to know how to sharpen your knife correctly and do so often no matter what brand you end up with.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

In regards to cuttings, I was thinking of using the knife to cut the bottom of the cutting to spread the bark. This is a technique I've seen in a couple articles, but the most popular source is "Bonsai: Its Art, Science, History, and Philosophy." But yeah, I use shears for cuttings as well -- at least if they're smaller. I've got a couple 1/2-3/4 inch cuttings going right now that I hope will take.

You're definitely selling me. lol -- That does sound appealing. I really can't find much in terms of different brands, and from what I read in that article you linked to, that knife seems perfect for it. I did see a couple others on that website you posted, but I'm not sure if it's worth the additional $20-$30. Do you think it'd be worth it?

Yeah, that's the next thing I was going to ask about. Do you just use a sharpening stone? I saw on the website that they include instructions, so I suppose I could just go off of those...but is there any other technique or article you'd suggest?

 

[Brent]

Alex

Read the article on my blog that Umeboshi suggests. I use the same knife that he does. I believe they cost about $20. You won't find any higher qualtiy. The blue steel holds a terrific edge, but you do have to learn how to sharpen them. See the article on Sharpening tools at my website. I don't use several grades of water stones anymore. I have found that a rough dressing with a diamond stone followed by the coarse (home) water stone, followed by the super fine gold stone, and then stropped is sufficient. I only do about 400 grafts a year anymore and one complete sharpening is good enough for the lot, but I have to restrop about every ten grafts and maybe hit the gold stone once or twice. The stones and instruction sheet are available from Japanwoodworker. This is a totally different approach from Western oil stones. The degree of sharpness achieved is incredible. Being able to shave with the knife is where you START. You want it so sharp that the hairs will just pop off your arm. Still the best test, but not for the faint of heart. I have done thousands of grafts with the same two knives. I ground one knife down so it was very thin to make the understock cuts, which requires a lot of pressure. It is so thin that it is damaged by the block when cutting scions, so I use the another knife with the bevel that the knife comes with for cutting scions. The grafting article is fairly complete on all these points.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Umeboshi, I want to apologize for not taking your advice from the beginning in regards to what knife to buy. In my defense, I still think it's common for people to get the opinions of multiple sources before making a final decision...but I don't want it to sound like I don't trust your word or consider you a less credible source than any other. I also want to thank you for taking the time to respond to all of my questions.

Brent, thank you for reinforcing what Umeboshi said. I purchased the knife last night before I went to bed. I know a person who sharpens tools in this area for a very reasonable price, so I think I'll be going there until I learn to sharpen my tools myself (which probably won't be longer than this coming growing season). A couple questions I have -- and perhaps other people can comment if they have experience doing this as well:

1. What do you mean by a rough dressing? I've been looking for woodworking/tool sharpening terminology and can't find it anywhere. . . .
2. What grit diamond/water stones do you use?
3. Would this be a good diamond stone?
4. I saw a couple diamond water stones...but they're around $200. Would this a) take out the step of going from diamond stone to water stone, and b) be worth the investment?
5. Where do you find gold stones? I haven't found any on Japan Woodworker, but I certainly could've overlooked it.

 

[Brent]

Umeboshi, I want to apologize for not taking your advice from the beginning in regards to what knife to buy. In my defense, I still think it's common for people to get the opinions of multiple sources before making a final decision...but I don't want it to sound like I don't trust your word or consider you a less credible source than any other. I also want to thank you for taking the time to respond to all of my questions.

Brent, thank you for reinforcing what Umeboshi said. I purchased the knife last night before I went to bed. I know a person who sharpens tools in this area for a very reasonable price, so I think I'll be going there until I learn to sharpen my tools myself (which probably won't be longer than this coming growing season). A couple questions I have -- and perhaps other people can comment if they have experience doing this as well:

1. What do you mean by a rough dressing? I've been looking for woodworking/tool sharpening terminology and can't find it anywhere. . . .

Rough dressing just means making a rough rounded, nicked edge smooth and flat, not necessarily very sharp.

2. What grit diamond/water stones do you use?
3. Would this be a good diamond stone?

No, these flex too much, you need a solid lap on 1/4 inch steel like listed below.

4. I saw a couple diamond water stones...but they're around $200. Would this a) take out the step of going from diamond stone to water stone, and b) be worth the investment?
5. Where do you find gold stones? I haven't found any on Japan Woodworker, but I certainly could've overlooked it.

Here's the whole deal, and the ones I use by the way. The terminology has been changed, but these are essentially the same ones I use. Get the book since it appears that they don't hand out a free instruction sheet like they used to for water stones. The whole she-bang will probably cost a couple hundred bucks, but will last a lifetime with care.

In case the book doesn't tell you: the nagura is essential. You use it to rub against the gold stone to make a paste of abrasive that actually does the sharpening and polishing. The gold stone won't work well or at all without it. You wet the water stones to use them, don't soak them, but just apply enough water so that a paste develops while you are sharpening. If it clogs, add a few drops more water. The gold stone will absorb very little water, thus you have to make the paste with the nagura adding a few drops of water until you get the paste. DO NOT SOAK OR WET THE WHOLE NAGURA or it will crumble and you are screwed. A buddy of mine learned the hard way.

Water stones are not like western old stones that are very hard and durable (and slow). Water stones are soft and made to wear quickly, so a new abrasive surface is continually exposed and washed away with the paste and water. This makes them cut much faster than say a hard arkansas stone. The drawback to this is that they wear quickly. No chance you will wear one out in your lifetime, but they do lose their flatness quickly. It is essential that they remain absolutely flat, so as soon as you detect a slight depression in the middle, it is time to dress them. You do this by rubbing them on a piece of wet/dry 220 grit emery cloth or paper using a milled surface to do it on, such as a table saw top or a drill press table. Use water. It only takes a few minutes to make them like new. You can see the depression disappear by holding the stone flat up to a light source.

I forgot to look for a strop. You can use an old barber's straight razor strop, that's what I do, or you can buy a fancy strop from them that is mounted on a block.

Here are the parts:

Diamond lap for rough dressing
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/search.asp?s=JapanWoodworker

Red water stone (home stone)
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.097.12&dept_id=13116

Fanatics will use a progression of different grit water stones at this point before polishing, but I have found it really isn't necessary and really speeds up the process if you just jump ahead to the gold. That's why you see all those other colored stones in various grits available. I cheat, so shoot me.

Gold Stone
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.098.03&dept_id=13118

Book for using water stones
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=03.190.25&dept_id=12672

Nagura stone for rubbing gold stone to make a paste
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/search.asp?s=JapanWoodworker

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the whole process and providing the links, and especially for sharing tips of what to do and what not to do...this will save me a TON of time and money in the long run. A couple of them (The diamond lap for tough dressing and the Nagura stone) didn't pull up, but I found a couple options for both.

For the diamond lap, would this suffice? It's a 600 grit diamond whetstone.

As for the gold stone, they sell a natural one and a synthetic one...would you suggest natural over synthetic?

I found a short article on knife sharpening on the website, but it doesn't go into much detail about it. In case anyone is interested, the article is here.

Thanks again for your help. I'm excited to start working with all of this...it's all very new to me, so I'm bound to make mistakes. But I'm sure I'll make fewer now. I also found a couple YouTube videos that go over sharpening techniques, so those should prove quite helpful as well.

 

[Klytus]

Diamond and/or wet and dry stuck to a flat surface.

 

[Brent]

Yes, that's exactly the diamond lap, don't know why their own link doesn't work, go figure.

Synthethic gold stone is fine, that's what I use.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

It shall be purchased. Thanks Brent!

 

[dpowell]

Just thought I'd jump in and throw my thanks to Brent as well. This is great information and I appreciate it. It's nice to see you on the forum as well Brent, I hope your health is doing better.

Danny

 

[Umeboshi]

Umeboshi, I want to apologize for not taking your advice from the beginning in regards to what knife to buy. In my defense, I still think it's common for people to get the opinions of multiple sources before making a final decision

No need to appologize. I agree completely.
I am quite novice myself and certainly do not have all of the answers. Almost everything I know about grafting comes directly from Brent's articles and his youtube video.

I would like to add that if you want to save some money and happen to have a scrap of leather hanging around you can easily make a strop yourself like I did. I just cut a piece of plywood into a paddle shape with a jigsaw and glued a piece of leather to it with the rough side out. Sprinkle with abrasive powder and yo are good to go.

 

[FrankP999]

Just thought I'd jump in and throw my thanks to Brent as well. This is great information and I appreciate it. It's nice to see you on the forum as well Brent, I hope your health is doing better.

Danny

I second that - great to see you here Brent. I have learned tons from your web site.