Can anyone ID this makers mark on very old bonsai pot?

[AlanReynolds]

The bonsai I put into that pot is a variegated juniper that's very old but needs a few years of growing to become a shape Id consider to be happy with. I just put it in that pot and seems to be happy in it. I have it wired to become almost twice the height it is now once it's done growing the way I want it too. Once the right side grows into more of a large informal upright shape, I'll probably jin the left side or shape it into a more traditional shape also. right now, I'm just giving the tree time to grow and become happy in its new home, the pot is what I'm more interested in. It was given to me by a good friend that's husband got it from Japan before World War I. I did drill a hole in the bottom for drainage as I personally find it very hard to grow bonsai in pots without proper drainage. I know many people that have grown bonsai in pots without drainage by placing a load of small rocks in the bottom of the planter, but I've never had much luck with that method. I also have a roofer friend that brings me live moss from the roofs he repairs. He grabs me as much as he can out of the gutters. I find that in Florida, the live moss helps keep the water from evaporating too quickly and drying the plant out too quickly. Thank you for looking at the makers mark and hopefully someone can identify the makers mark to tell me if the pot is valuable or not. I'm just curious as I'll most likely never sell the planter but it still makes me curious.

 

[Random User]

Awesome look'n pot!

 

[AlanReynolds]

It definitely is different, I want to say its almost made out of sandstone, maybe sandstone with some old cement and clay. It's a very strange substance as it isn't just plain old clay. and its stain is very thick and durable. Not like a ceramic coating but almost like a thick paint but it cant be paint because if it is, I want to paint my house with it as its harder than marble, as I broke 4 different diamond cement bits drilling the drainage hole in it. Whatever either is, both the material it was made with and the coating the color is made of, both are very very hard materials. Unbelievably hard materials. I was definitely amazed.

 

[Random User]

I like it, because it's so unusual... if I saw it sitting on a rack somewhere, I'd never guess that it's as old as you say it is. It looks like that drab grey lead paint they used on battle ships...

 

[AlanReynolds]

Maybe it is lead paint. I do remember some lead paints being very tough. "things that makes you go hmmm? -Arsenio Hall

 

[Random User]

Maybe it is lead paint. I do remember some lead paints being very tough. "things that makes you go hmmm? -Arsenio Hall

It was just an off-handed comment, I wouldn't put much thought into that possibility at all.

 

[AlanReynolds]

I guess nobody knows what or who that makers mark belongs to and if it has any value at all. :-(

 

[rockm]

FWIW, looks like stoneware clay to me. The chop photo is very blurry.

Have you tried the chop ID sites?
https://japanesebonsaipots.net/2012/01/10/chop-and-signature-resource/
http://www.tokoname.or.jp/bonsai/catalog/maker-e.htm

There's also a group on Facebook, if you have it.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/286969948133488/

 

[Waltron]

looks like they used a nutter butter to mark it. hope that helps.

 

[M. Frary]

looks like they used a nutter butter to mark it. hope that helps.

Or it says Made in China.

 

[twisted trees]

Try sending a clearer pic to Ryan Bell @ japanesebonsaipots.net.

 

[kakejiku]

Characters look like 月華, but I can not tell the order of the reading or anything beyond that....Just FYI Kadou (華道) is the word for Japanese Flower Arranging, sometimes also referred to as ikebana.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

It does look like an old pot for ikebana, that would be why there's no drainage holes.

 

[Shima]

It does look like an old pot for ikebana, that would be why there's no drainage holes.

Ah well there you have it. It's not a bonsai pot. Or wasn't 'till you made it one.

 

[AlanReynolds]

I didn't sneeze but God bless you also. ikebana who? What or who is that?

 

[Chuah]

View attachment 139143 View attachment 139144
the pot is what I'm more interested in. It was given to me by a good friend that's husband got it from Japan before World War I. Thank you for looking at the makers mark and hopefully someone can identify the makers mark to tell me if the pot is valuable or not. I'm just curious as I'll most likely never sell the planter but it still makes me curious.

The chop reads "Kagetsu". If it dates from before WWI, kanji were written from right to left in the old days. The chop means 'beautiful moon'.

 

[kakejiku]

桜華....Hard thing is when there are multiple meanings of the same word. For example, Ka has the meaning of Beautiful but it is also commonly paired with words that make it to mean the word flower...The characters in the beginning, are Ouka, which is a cherry blossom. It is also used as a term for colors of light pink. Without context, many translations can be guesses at the true meaning...

Could it be that the characters designate a kiln? I do not know but there is a kiln of that name in the Kyoto area.
http://www.artisticnippon.com/product/kyoto_ware/kyoyaki.html
But that does not mean the characters of the kiln name Kagetsu are the same as the one on your pot.

There is also a potter that went by the name Kagetsu, Hara. But that does not mean the characters of his name Kagetsu are the same as the one on your pot.

 

[AlanReynolds]

Wow, how far down does the rabbit hole go? I wonder if the planter is valuable? I know it's very old, but I'm curious if it's worth any more than any other pots I have from Japan. I've found that the japanese pots are much better quality than the cheap Chinese pots that are constantly imported and I'm my opinion far less quality. In fact, if I find great quality Japanese bonsai pots, I usually try my best to suck them up. Lol I also male my own ceramic pots which turn out absolutely awesome because I can make sure there is tie down holes (which usually aren't in alot of pots), better drainage hole setups, and water trays that match the pot I make. Unfortunately I can't get my hands on any brown japanese clay around here without havi it shipped in and clay isn't light. So right now I'm stuck using regular white ceramic clay, but it's alot cheaper and better quality than what I've seen out there for rediculously high prices. I refuse to pay 100 bucks for a pot. Call me stingy and I love my bonsai, but I don't make the big bucks like I used to when I was younger so there isn't any splurging on high end expensive pots.

 

[Smoke]

Wow, how far down does the rabbit hole go? I wonder if the planter is valuable? I know it's very old, but I'm curious if it's worth any more than any other pots I have from Japan. I've found that the japanese pots are much better quality than the cheap Chinese pots that are constantly imported and I'm my opinion far less quality. In fact, if I find great quality Japanese bonsai pots, I usually try my best to suck them up. Lol I also male my own ceramic pots which turn out absolutely awesome because I can make sure there is tie down holes (which usually aren't in alot of pots), better drainage hole setups, and water trays that match the pot I make. Unfortunately I can't get my hands on any brown japanese clay around here without havi it shipped in and clay isn't light. So right now I'm stuck using regular white ceramic clay, but it's alot cheaper and better quality than what I've seen out there for rediculously high prices. I refuse to pay 100 bucks for a pot. Call me stingy and I love my bonsai, but I don't make the big bucks like I used to when I was younger so there isn't any splurging on high end expensive pots.

Not exactly

 

[Chuah]

桜華....Hard thing is when there are multiple meanings of the same word. For example, Ka has the meaning of Beautiful but it is also commonly paired with words that make it to mean the word flower...The characters in the beginning, are Ouka, which is a cherry blossom. It is also used as a term for colors of light pink. Without context, many translations can be guesses at the true meaning...

Could it be that the characters designate a kiln? I do not know but there is a kiln of that name in the Kyoto area.
http://www.artisticnippon.com/product/kyoto_ware/kyoyaki.html
But that does not mean the characters of the kiln name Kagetsu are the same as the one on your pot.

There is also a potter that went by the name Kagetsu, Hara. But that does not mean the characters of his name Kagetsu are the same as the one on your pot.

I am not into Japanese bonsai pot, just merely read the chop and translate it. Ask Ryan Bell if anyone wants to know about Japanese pot.

Yes, kanji can be read in several ways and have several meanings when used in different context. The word 華 can mean flower, beautiful, white or China, so pick your choice: flower moon, beautiful moon, white moon or China moon. It is also an archaic word for flower, not sure modern day Japanese still write flower that way.