camellias MIA?

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Shohin
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It seems to me like there isn't a lot of interest in camellias in the world of Bonsai. There's some, of course, but not nearly as much as there is for other flowering shrubs. is there a reason why?

My guess is that their leaves are difficut to reduce?
 
Camellia can make wonderful bonsai, the good ones are fabulous, but the natural habits of the genus makes it difficult to use for bonsai. In the USA they are only hardy on the west coast and the southern tier of states. Not necessarily a problem, but they are difficult to handle under lights or on a windowsill. This means half or more of the country can not grow them well.

The branching tends to the coarse side, the leaves for the standard hybrids don't reduce well, and the flowers are disproportionately large. All are traits that tend to make bonsai that look unbalanced. When one solves all these problems, they are stunning. But few get the whole suite of issues handled well. Most end up with a plant in a pot that has pretty flowers, but looks ungainly or out of balance.

There are species camellias with smaller leaves and finer branching habits. These and their hybrids have not been grown long in the USA, so are relatively uncommon. Some of these species and hybrids might make excellent bonsai. Worth a try. When shopping camellia - look for varieties noted for small leaves and smaller flowers.

Google for a mail order nursery - Camellia Forest. They carry a number of the smaller leaved species and hybrids.
 
I'm a big fan of Camellia's and am lucky that they do really well in the mild climate I live in. Like Leo said one limiting factor is that many parts of the US can't grow them easily. However, I do believe that certain types would work great for Bonsai. Personally I prefer more simple types, often the seedling varieties that with single flowers that are not too flashy. I have three different types at home that i'm experimenting with. I believe my favorite is a seedling that is native to an island off South Korea. It has a small red flower with smaller leaves. I got it through Camelia Forest and they call it Longwood Valentine. Camelia Forest carries several different types that would work well for Bonsai with smaller simple flowers. You can get the 1 yr old trees from cutting and repot to work on the roots and wire movement into the trunks. Or a larger plant and airlayer sections off.
 
Thanks for the info! I may need to place an order with camellia forest! Would you mind sharing a picture or two of your camellias in training?
 
Go over to the IBC forum, a friend of mine and fellow club member has some posted there. Just type "camellia" into the search bar. Here is an example:

camell10.jpg

Funny that this thread came up, I was at the local mall this past weekend and they local camellia society was having its annual show, lots of pretty flowers. I have one that I picked up at the local botanical gardens that I plan to make a bonsai out of. It is a unique specimen as the branches grow contorted.

John
 
It seems to me like there isn't a lot of interest in camellias in the world of Bonsai. There's some, of course, but not nearly as much as there is for other flowering shrubs. is there a reason why?

My guess is that their leaves are difficut to reduce?

I had the same thought not too long ago: where are all the camellias? I picked this one up from my local nursery a few weeks back. I don't know if it'll amount to much but I had to have it. Apologies for the crummy pic, but it was something when it was in bloom.

image.jpg
 
There are about two dozen planted as landscaping at the entrance to our neighborhood. Pink flowers, fat trunks, nice canopies, and small leaves. It is all I can do to keep from making a midnight raid. Do you think that they would miss just one?

John
 
They do really well in the landscape here. I dug three old sasanquas from my neighbor's yard back in 2008...her yard crew was removing them and I intervened after they had sawed them from 15' to about 2' tall. The 2 I potted languished in their pots and died (thinking too much sun, too-dry soil); the third, and largest, is in the ground and doing well. I've contemplated digging it up, but it's a monster! We have 5-6 japonicas in the landscape; they have smaller foliage and flowers. John, I think the one you posted is japonica.
 
Go over to the IBC forum, a friend of mine and fellow club member has some posted there. Just type "camellia" into the search bar. Here is an example:

View attachment 65938

Funny that this thread came up, I was at the local mall this past weekend and they local camellia society was having its annual show, lots of pretty flowers. I have one that I picked up at the local botanical gardens that I plan to make a bonsai out of. It is a unique specimen as the branches grow contorted.

John

She's a beaut!
 
I've got a camellia sasanqua 'Yuletide' that I obtained in a beginners class with Bill V about 4 years ago. I've managed to keep it alive through 3 Rochester winters (it goes in the unheated mudroom, which stays mostly between 35-45 in the winter...but occasionally down to 30 or so). It has some potential but is going to have to be pretty large because of the large leaves (not sure how much they'll eventually reduce) and HUGE flowers. See attached photos which are from about a year ago. Another member of the local club also has one (though I don't know the species/variety), he's been working with it for over 10 years. I haven't seen any others in person, but have seen photos of beautiful specimens from Japan.

Camellia forest nursery has some that they think might be hardy outdoors in a protected spot up here. At some point I may try a couple of those. I'd like to find a developed plant that has smaller leaves and flowers, but I haven't seen anything for sale.

yuletide4.jpg yuletide03.jpg
 
There are about two dozen planted as landscaping at the entrance to our neighborhood. Pink flowers, fat trunks, nice canopies, and small leaves. It is all I can do to keep from making a midnight raid. Do you think that they would miss just one?

John

Just be sure to take one off of the end, no one will ever notice.
 
Thanks for the info! I may need to place an order with camellia forest! Would you mind sharing a picture or two of your camellias in training?

Nothing really to look at yet. I bare rooted and transplanted into these colanders. I spread the roots when I transplanted and will wire movement into the trunks in the future.


image_zps96e7cf85.jpg
 
This is copy and paste from a post I did on IBC. Just going through Camellia Forest's catalog I found a few species in the genus Camellia that have smaller leaves and flowers. I did not search for the hybrids from these species, as I ran out of time. But hybrids from the smaller leaf species should also have smaller leaves. The original post on IBC opened with a discussion of using Camellia sinensis as bonsai, hence the first paragraph is about Tea.

C sinensis, tea, has been a favorite bonsai for the Tokugawa family for generations. K. Murata's book Four Season's of Bonsai has an image or two of Tea as bonsai. Tea makes a decent bonsai, leaves reduce to smaller sizes than many other species of camellia, and the flowers are smaller too though just as nice. Most C. sinensis varieties have single white flowers, but there is a pink flower form too. So using tea as bonsai is a time honored tradition.

Camellia Forest http://www.camforest.com/ has 6 cultivars of Tea listed. Also check Camellia Forest for species Camellia that have smaller leaves and flowers. C brevistyla, C. cuspidata, C fraterna, C. handelii, C. obtusifolia, C. parvilimba, C. transnokoensis, & C. yuhsienensis are all listed as having smaller leaves. Most have white flowers, though some have other colors. hybrids from these species could have smaller leaves also. While I'm killing time this afternoon, I did not take the additional time to scour the hybrid lists for the hybrids with small leaves.
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Note that C. handelii and C. parvilimba have leaves at only one inch, so imagine what could be done with bonsai leaf reduction techniques.

My decade ago foray into Camellia horticulture was not successful, but I am thinking about trying again, hence the research into smaller leaved varieties. Once I get confident about keeping Satsuki azaleas alive, I will 'branch out' and return to Camellia. So far my latest batch of Satsuki is in year 5, so I might be getting close to revisiting Camellia.
 
Mine is starting to bloom. Hopefully this weekend cold snap won't blast the buds.
 

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I don't know about impressive, but it's big.
It's full of potential and the girth is quite impressive. I've seen your work...I know when it's out of the ground...and your working it...it will be quite spectacular. I've come to quite admire the tree within...and I can see it with this one!
 
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