Broken terracota as substrate?

[Crazy Diamond]

Many people like me cant afford akadama, in some places like Argentina or Chile its common to use break down terracota, red bricks or roof tiles to make a cheap alternative to akadama (then mixed with some organic compound like bark or worm casting). Sure the akadama will be better but if you want a chaep substrate for prebonsai or young trees I think it can work nice. Any of you guys have tryed it?

 

[penumbra]

I think its a great idea and I am surprised that it is not done on a commercial bases. Personally I avoid these dust producing procedures as much as I can because my lungs are already compromised. My work in clay is my poison and I try to be as careful as I can with it. I know several potters who had to give it up and a few that are no longer with us should have.
But it is about a perfect substrate and many orchid grower use it and succulent growers as well.

 

[rockm]

If you live in an area where it freezes in the winter, terra cotta will turn to mush in a few seasons. If you're after a cheaper alternative to Akadama in temperate zones, crushed HIGH FIRED brick can work. I've used it in the past when I was making my own soil. Sifting can get rid of the mostly unusable bigger chunks and smaller particles. About a third to half a bag is the yield of premium particles...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Oldcastle-0-5-cu-ft-Red-Gravel/3622912?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-lwn-_-ggl-_-LIA_LWN_179_Landscape-Products-_-3622912-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQiA8ICOBhDmARIsAEGI6o19AtOL6KOiv0HRTtvOwjfLG3FNsMmIvoCbDcSVwYRSO2cfDoPsoDAaAiZoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Michael P]

Just like brick, there is a difference between high-fired and low-fired terra cotta. High-fired terra cotta resists freeze-thaw damage.

 

[hinmo24t]

If you live in an area where it freezes in the winter, terra cotta will turn to mush in a few seasons. If you're after a cheaper alternative to Akadama in temperate zones, crushed HIGH FIRED brick can work. I've used it in the past when I was making my own soil. Sifting can get rid of the mostly unusable bigger chunks and smaller particles. About a third to half a bag is the yield of premium particles...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Oldcastle-0-5-cu-ft-Red-Gravel/3622912?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-lwn-_-ggl-_-LIA_LWN_179_Landscape-Products-_-3622912-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQiA8ICOBhDmARIsAEGI6o19AtOL6KOiv0HRTtvOwjfLG3FNsMmIvoCbDcSVwYRSO2cfDoPsoDAaAiZoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

interesting product - thanks

 

[penumbra]

Just like brick, there is a difference between high-fired and low-fired terra cotta. High-fired terra cotta resists freeze-thaw damage.

Very true but often overlooked. I have a small garden path that is made of broken clay pots and it does not degrade at all except from foot traffic, and even then it holds up surprisingly well.

If you live in an area where it freezes in the winter, terra cotta will turn to mush in a few seasons. If you're after a cheaper alternative to Akadama in temperate zones, crushed HIGH FIRED brick can work. I've used it in the past when I was making my own soil. Sifting can get rid of the mostly unusable bigger chunks and smaller particles. About a third to half a bag is the yield of premium particles...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Oldcastle-0-5-cu-ft-Red-Gravel/3622912?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-lwn-_-ggl-_-LIA_LWN_179_Landscape-Products-_-3622912-_-local-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQiA8ICOBhDmARIsAEGI6o19AtOL6KOiv0HRTtvOwjfLG3FNsMmIvoCbDcSVwYRSO2cfDoPsoDAaAiZoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Looks like a very good product. Thanks.

 

[hinmo24t]

i wonder how easy it is to process old TC pots...put it in thick bag and smash it a bunch of times, and with a mallet or brick or something

i dont see myself doing it because i dont like broken TC, it cut my hand once on it and pup is out and about and it could hurt her paw

 

[Crazy Diamond]

In my zone very difficult to get bellow 10cº (50f) also I think broke down fire expanded clay could be an option a lot of the hydroponic guys use it

 

[rockm]

Expanded shale is called "haydite" and is a typical, reliable bonsai soil component

Small Haydite Rock | Indianapolis Decorative Rock | McCarty

Most popular decorative rock. Porous and easy to work with. Taupe to grey in color, with tan highlights. Half the weight of the typical decorative stone.

www.landscapemulch.com

 

[Michael P]

I've used expanded shale in bonsai soil for decades. It is much more available here than many soil components, especially the Holy Trinity (akadama, pumice, lava).

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I've used expanded shale in bonsai soil for decades. It is much more available here than many soil components, especially the Holy Trinity (akadama, pumice, lava).

That one looks pretty good but I dont think I can find it in my zone, I can buy LECA expanded clay

 

[hinmo24t]

That one looks pretty good but I dont think I can find it in my zone, I can buy LECA expanded clay

id be curious how small leca balls work in bonsai soil. i have it for a few houseplants. it isnt super cheap if i remember correctly though

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think its a great idea and I am surprised that it is not done on a commercial bases.

It is. Product is called Seramis and it's sold all over Europe as a hydroponic and houseplant medium.
Pretty expensive too! Compared to imported extra hard akadama, the akadama is cheap.
Seramis holds up way longer though, but due to its small pore size and the availability of better soil, I rarely use it nowadays.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

i wonder how easy it is to process old TC pots...put it in thick bag and smash it a bunch of times, and with a mallet or brick or something

i dont see myself doing it because i dont like broken TC, it cut my hand once on it and pup is out and about and it could hurt her paw

Cement tumbler with some harder stone, for about half an hour and you've saved yourself a weeks worth of manual labor.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

what substrate mix you ussualy make @Wires_Guy_wires ?

 

[hinmo24t]

It is. Product is called Seramis and it's sold all over Europe as a hydroponic and houseplant medium.
Pretty expensive too! Compared to imported extra hard akadama, the akadama is cheap.
Seramis holds up way longer though, but due to its small pore size and the availability of better soil, I rarely use it nowadays.

thats a good call - i remember seeing a bag of that in houseplant video ventures at one point

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

@Arnold I buy premixed bags of lavarock, pumice and granite (2-4mm, ratio 1:1:1) and I add some pine bark (2-4mm) when needed for the heavy drinkers.
The stuff is called vulkastrat and it's sold in Germany and the Netherlands. It's about 23 euros for a 25kg bag.
I think the lava rock actually comes from one of your islas.
But I do have to note that I'm growing mostly conifers. My deciduous seem to like more clay like substrates, but instead of getting akadama again, I'm experimenting with coco coir instead. Some nurseries get really good results with the stuff, and it's super cheap. So I'm looking into how to use it to my advantage, even though I always hated the stuff because it's the only substrate I never got working right for me in 17 years time.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

The stuff is called vulkastrat and it's sold in Germany and the Netherlands. It's about 23 euros for a 25kg bag.
I think the lava rock actually comes from one of your islas.

How funny most of the conifers and other indoor plants sell here come from the Netherlands

But I do have to note that I'm growing mostly conifers. My deciduous seem to like more clay like substrates, but instead of getting akadama again, I'm experimenting with coco coir instead. Some nurseries get really good results with the stuff, and it's super cheap. So I'm looking into how to use it to my advantage, even though I always hated the stuff because it's the only substrate I never got working right for me in 17 years time.

I guess by coco coir you mean the coco shells broken down in small pieces?

 

[penumbra]

How funny most of the conifers and other indoor plants sell here come from the Netherlands


I guess by coco coir you mean the coco shells broken down in small pieces?

Coco Chor is finely shredded and has more of the consistency of peat moss but is much better draining and does not get all slimy like peat. I have it in 2 of my grow beds for 2 years now and it is as light and airy as it was when I put it in there. Contrast this with dense slimy beds of peat that never seem to dry out, and if you can dry them out they shed water like a ducks back. Coco chor does not do either of these things. It is hydro-static when dry and it drains super well.

 

[bwaynef]

When I was dabbling in soil concoctions I used brick chips. They were a little over-sized compared to most of my other components but I liked them. Pines in particular seemed to grow really well in them. I think I had a hard time finding them for a couple years and have settled on a mix that doesn't include brick chips so I've stopped looking.