Bristlecone Pine (pinus aristata) Yamadori questions

[2MileHighBonsai]

Hello Bonsainuts!

New member here. I have been really enjoying all of the information on these forums as I begin my bonsai journey. I have a Monterey Cypress (Cupressus macrocarpa) which I purchased from a non-bonsai nursery for $7 that I have been keeping alive in my windowsill for a couple months. I currently live above 10,000ft in Colorado and am very lucky to have many mature Bristlecone Pines on my property. My family will be moving down to the Denver area this summer and I would like to collect a young tree to bonsai and take with me. The research I have done tells me to treat these as an extremely slow growing White Pine, care wise, and to dig up the tree in early spring. I plan on building a wooden box .

I have many options to choose from, ranging in size from 12 - 60in tall and trunk sizes from 1/2 - 2+ inches. I don't know enough about bonsai yet to have any kind of vision for this tree style-wise. I am really trying to be successful at collecting a tree and keeping it healthy so that I can work with the tree when my skills are ready. I may even give myself better options/odds by taking more than one...

I am looking for advice and things to look for when selecting Yamadori from you fine folk and will be happy to keep this thread updated as the process moves along.

Here are some photos of likely suspects around the house and there even more buried in snow in the shady areas I can uncover an snap a pic of also.

Thanks for looking!

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Beautiful candidates! The first thing you want to consider when it comes to yamadori is where it's growing, as in what type of soil the roots are in.
If the soil is too loose and rocky/crumbly, you might end up bare-rooting the tree. This isn't automatically a bad thing, but it definitely presents some challenges with pines, as the original soil contains mycorrhizae (sp?), beneficial microbes that assist the roots in absorbing nutrition.
If the soil is too fine and heavy, the challenge will be keeping it dry enough, as bristlecone prefer pretty dry conditions. You'll have to exchange the original soil, over time, to a looser, more "proper" bonsai soil.
If its roots are growing into a large rock, there's a very low chance of getting enough undamaged roots to ensure survival.
Aftercare is crucial. There are a number of threads addressing this topic for multiple species and genera. There are a few members here from Colorado who may be able to give you much better information and advice. This is just what I've learned here.
@Colorado, @ShadyStump, and in the Albuquerque area, @Hartinez

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

Thanks, I think so too! It has been really neat watching these little trees grow over the years, even before I ever thought about bonsai. I was definitely wondering how to determine what type of soil would be best and will look deeply into that and aftercare. Thank you.


Here's a couple snaps of the first 2-3' of soil...this is very typical for the whole property.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Sand and rocks are a bad sign, roots dig down deep in those kind of soils. Try to look for a pocket that contains a lot of leaf litter and organics, roots tend to be closer to the surface in those kind of spots. Those situations increase the chance of survival by about 4x compared to a sandy dig spot.

 

[Javaman4373]

Let me give you a tip coming from my bad experience. I had a bristlecone pine on our property that had been in the ground something like 20 years that I decided to collect and put in a pot. i made a basic newbie mistake and thought the soil that it had been in would be best. Wrong. Also, since I transplanted the tree, I thought it would need to be watered well. Wrong. The tree promptly died. I should have potted it in good bonsai soil, primarily inorganics, and avoided over watering. Hard lesson learned. The tree I killed, you can see it sitting in muck.

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

Sand and rocks are a bad sign, roots dig down deep in those kind of soils. Try to look for a pocket that contains a lot of leaf litter and organics, roots tend to be closer to the surface in those kind of spots. Those situations increase the chance of survival by about 4x compared to a sandy dig spot.

Thanks for your input. The two biggest candidates look like they may have started life as a sucker... not sure if that would affect the location of the root mass or the difficulty in removing successfully. I am going to hike down towards the river later today and see if there are any more likely suspects on the lower part of the property.

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

Let me give you a tip coming from my bad experience. I had a bristlecone pine on our property that had been in the ground something like 20 years that I decided to collect and put in a pot. i made a basic newbie mistake and thought the soil that it had been in would be best. Wrong. Also, since I transplanted the tree, I thought it would need to be watered well. Wrong. The tree promptly died. I should have potted it in good bonsai soil, primarily inorganics, and avoided over watering. Hard lesson learned. The tree I killed, you can see it sitting in muck. to

Great advice. I am sorry to hear about your tree, it had a very interesting trunk. I was planning on only keeping the soil in the rootball and using inorganic bonsai soil to fill in the rest.

Do you remember how deep the taproot went down? Did you prune yours back at the same time as repotting? I am not planning on doing anything beyond moving into a box until 2026.

As I am thinking bout this, I may end up with 3-4 trees of different sizes and soil composition to try and get some data on which ones do best after collecting.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thanks for your input. The two biggest candidates look like they may have started life as a sucker... not sure if that would affect the location of the root mass or the difficulty in removing successfully. I am going to hike down towards the river later today and see if there are any more likely suspects on the lower part of the property.

I don't know if you're looking at a sucker (which pines don't make) or that you're looking at a ground layer (which pines sometimes make) or at just one huge tap root. I would investigate before committing to a full dig.

Keep in mind that putting the sand back and not digging a tree, is a perfectly fine move to make.

 

[Javaman4373]

OP. my Bristlecone didn't have a substantial tap root. The subsoil at that spot had many rocks.

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

I don't know if you're looking at a sucker (which pines don't make) or that you're looking at a ground layer (which pines sometimes make) or at just one huge tap root. I would investigate before committing to a full dig.

Keep in mind that putting the sand back and not digging a tree, is a perfectly fine move to make.

If I find that it is one huge taproot and I’m able to dig deeper to cut it, could I build a deeper box? Looking at ~6in deep box currently.

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

I found some more trees that are older than the ones near my house. I took a length of rebar to probe and these are in much softer soil under a couple of mature trees in an old road cut. I definitely like the thicker trunks and more established lower branches these trees offer and a couple have interesting movement in the trunk.

This one especially has my eye. Trunk diameter at the ground is around 2-1/2 - 3 inches at the ground and I really like the branches in the first few feet. It is also in a very grassy depression with soft soil for 8 -12in down then it gets really hard.

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

A few shots of the other trees down there. The curvy one seems like it is just under a couple of rocks and not into them, I didn't want to poke too much into the soil around this one since we're in the heart of winter here so I'll see in the spring...

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

I have found some information saying pines do better when collected in the fall. Unfortunately, we are selling when we move this summer so I won't be able to wait and these will come up this spring.

I'm thinking to keep the soil in the rootballs only and surround them in an almost pure pumice mix. I will wrap them in plastic and mist them, keeping them moist until they seem hold moisture on their own and then removing the bags.

Is there any reason to use a more traditional soil mix for them while in the box for the next 2-3 years??

They will be placed in the shade and shelter of the mature BC's on the side of my house. I plan to water them as soon as the top of the soil gets dry at first and see how they do.

Keeping out of direct sunlight for how long?
-The rest of the season?
-Until I see some growth?

I have found some info and a few previous posts about this that have been helpful but seem to all differ on the soil mix and recovery time. I would love to hear anyone's experience on these or similar pines.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

If I find that it is one huge taproot and I’m able to dig deeper to cut it, could I build a deeper box? Looking at ~6in deep box currently.

That depends, usually the tap root contains a whole bushel of roots on its end. If there are no other fine roots, or too little of them to support the tree, cutting that tap root would mean you can leave the tree in the field because it will not survive.
Deciduous trees might recover from being treated like a cutting, but conifers rarely do.

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

That depends, usually the tap root contains a whole bushel of roots on its end. If there are no other fine roots, or too little of them to support the tree, cutting that tap root would mean you can leave the tree in the field because it will not survive.
Deciduous trees might recover from being treated like a cutting, but conifers rarely do.

Gotcha. Seems like when I am uncovering the base of the tree and the roots I will be able to tell if there are enough fine roots and that the taproot doesn't go to deep without digging deeper. I have been finding videos of folks collecting many kinds of pines but none of these yet.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Percentage is your friend, collect as many as you can afford to pot up , 10, 20? Several in one box?

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

Percentage is your friend, collect as many as you can afford to pot up , 10, 20? Several in one box?

 

[2MileHighBonsai]

I am planning on getting at least 3 or 4 of the 20-30 year-old trees, if the roots seem up to the task. I was going to try some different techniques with several of the smaller trees so that I can see what works best.

I am thinking of trying a couple in Anderson flats instead of boxes.
With several of the smaller ones in one box I could see the difference between keeping a lot of the native soil with the roots and cleaning most of it off, just enough left to keep some microbes...

Not much aristata specific info out there so I would love to contribute since I have the oppotunity with so many trees and the rest of winter to learn and prepare.

 

[Potawatomi13]

One Bristlecone (aristata) in personal care since 1995 is in pure pumice 3/16-3/8 inch size, Here in Eugene OR we get plenty of rain Sept-May so drainage is adequate. Just be sure in Summer warm dry weather not to let dry out. Pumice holds moisture but breathes well also. In Summer if pumice grows alga or moss too well maybe cut back to water half as often. One more suggestion about collecting would be to go for smaller trees until knowing you have collected well and can keep these alive at least 2 or 3 years so as not to needlessly kill off wild Bristlecones and solid wood boxes would be better seeing as Anderson flats flex and mess with roots every time they are moved..