Botched slip pot or fungal infection (or both...)?

[B.Samedi]

Hi all,

I just started growing bonsai seriously this past spring. I've read a plethora of posts to this forum that were immensely helpful as I learned the basics, so I'm hoping y'all can help with a more specific issue. I recently moved to San Diego (10b) and, with the new growing space I now have, decided to purchase a couple bonsai species I was interested in but didn't have the space to accomodate given the plants I already had... one of which being a field maple (not glorious, I know, but I already killed a trident maple with a late repot so I thought I would try again with a more hardy tree).

I purchased the FM from a reputible seller online and, wanting to speed-run the tree's initial setup, tried to slip-pot the tree from its gallon nursery pot into a pond basket less than a week ago (8/14). Knowing its very off-season, I tried my best to "loosen" the roots at the edges without disturbing too much of the root ball. However, yesterday I noticed some significant discoloring of the leaves thats even worse today. Truth be told, I think I may have noticed it slightly before the slip-pot adventure, which makes me hesitant to say it started as a result -- though it most definantly has picked up speed post-potting.

I am worried that (1) I may have been too aggresive in loosening the roots at the edges and that the current feeder roots aren't enough to support the foliage, (2) that there is/was a fungal infection that is opportunistically spreading now that the tree is a bit weaker, and/or (3) my limitations given my climate (West facing balcony in August in 10b SoCal) that the tree is getting leaf scorch despite my percautions. Obviously all three could be the case, but I'm hoping y'all would have insight on what to do about it.

Here is a breakdown of its current care:
Currently, I water the tree twice a day (AM and PM) due to the current temps and how its affected my other trees; plus, the soild I moved it too is mostly inorganic (off-brand akadama substitute + pumice + lava rock) with some pine bark (both in new mix and from the tree's original soil), so it drains and dries pretty quick. The tree is not in full sun yet; the only space I have is a West-facing balcony, so I have positioned it to only get sun for a couple of hours (2-4) with the intention of moving it to a ~6 hours of sun spot once it aclimates to SoCal climate (has worked fine for my CE that was purchased from seller in similar climate to the FM's and my FTT that I was initially growing indoors at my last place due to spacial limitations). Put it some Biogold Original post-potting under the assumption that the organic fertilizer would take some time to break down, only becoming bioavailable after the plant is better established in a couple of weeks (and therefore wouldn't be at risk for pot-slip-pot-over-fertilization). I have been top watering the leaves (which I am now stopping) in the hopes that it would help prevent leaf scorch. Cant visualize any insects (but I have a steromicroscope in storage and I'm gonna take a closer look). I have not tried any fungicides yet, but I have copper octanoate, propicanozole, and daconil (all Bonide); was planning on starting w/ daconil tomorrow but thought I would come here first.

Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated. Regardless of the circumstances, I am glad that I've finally made an account!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I think it's just a little stressed. No need for all the fungicides or insecticides.
This is just what happens when you repot out of season during a hot period.
Field maples are basically indestructible. There are over 50.000 planted in my town, as hedges. They survive cars and kids mowing over them.

Next time, don't stress yourself and wait for the right time to repot. Plants in potting soil often grow faster than in bonsai soil, so repotting faster is not always the best move on the long run.

If it keeps worsening after 4 days, re-asses.

 

[B.Samedi]

I think it's just a little stressed. No need for all the fungicides or insecticides.
This is just what happens when you repot out of season during a hot period.
Field maples are basically indestructible. There are over 50.000 planted in my town, as hedges. They survive cars and kids mowing over them.

Next time, don't stress yourself and wait for the right time to repot. Plants in potting soil often grow faster than in bonsai soil, so repotting faster is not always the best move on the long run.

If it keeps worsening after 4 days, re-asses.

Loveeeeely definitely the best possibility. Yeah, most of my bonsai journey has definitely been "experiential learning" (RIP that trident) but I was gonna genuinely reconsider my horticultural ability if I managed to doom a field maple with a slip-potting. I'll hold off on all my chemicals for now lol. Thanks for the insight!

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I already killed a trident maple with a late repot

wanting to speed-run the tree's initial setup

"experiential learning"

the key to success is learning the appropriate time for your actions,

Sure, some of us do tasks outside of the appropriate time provided we can provide appropriate after care

It doesn't sound like you're set up to offer the after care required for these late repots and should avoid them.

you're previous experience with the trident should have taught you this, but hopefully this time around has cemented the lesson.

In future avoid slip pots all together, repot properly and work the roots as much as you can, at the right time!

 

[B.Samedi]

the key to success is learning the appropriate time for your actions,

Sure, some of us do tasks outside of the appropriate time provided we can provide appropriate after care

It doesn't sound like you're set up to offer the after care required for these late repots and should avoid them.

you're previous experience with the trident should have taught you this, but hopefully this time around has cemented the lesson.

In future avoid slip pots all together, repot properly and work the roots as much as you can, at the right time!

Agreed. I was going off likely-sensationalized accounts of how risk-free operations like slip-potting were. But its as you say, going two for two on out-of-season repots was likely more hubris than workshopping lol. I've definitely appreciated how bonsai has made me slow down and think it out at the tree's pace -- should take that to heart more when I dream up a potential beeline for a tree.

In terms of avoiding slip-pots altogether, is the only reason the limitations on aftercare with my current setup/climate? Or the practice as a whole? As mentioned, the way it is portrayed in most YT videos and forums/articles is as a somewhat ezpz brainless operation.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

The way I see it, you only get access to the roots at repotting, say every 4(ish) years

May aswell make the most of the opportunity and set your roots up for the best possible future

Slip potting gives you layers of rootbound roots on top of other layers of rootbound roots which can become very difficult to work through to fix the problem down the line

Not to mention the trapped media and watering and feeding properly with different media in the root zone

 

[Paradox]

Bonsai is a marathon, not a sprint and will teach you patience whether you like it or not

 

[NaoTK]

Field maples are paradoxical to me, and I would love to know how they behave in Europe... Here in the western US it is dry and hot in the summer. I find that field maple really slows down in the summer and puts out very little growth. The leaves look tired. But in the spring they are very energetic and put out several rounds of flushes. Is that what you guys see?

 

[August44]

Sorry for your problems. To me it seems like a lot of things happened here that contributed to the condition, re-pot at the wrong time, heat, fertilizer at the wrong time, shock of all of this with a tree that just came from a different climate...that's a lot of negative things going on for that poor tree IMO. Also, the fact that you say it had leaves showing discoloration etc before all this happened makes me wonder about previous exposure to fungus. I have learned (maybe) that one must always look and think (!!) before doing just about anything with bonsai trees. If you are impatient, like some of us are, it will continue to bite you until you either get the patience, or quit the bonsai world all together. Don't feel alone, a lot of us fight with patience and lack of knowledge quite regularly.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Loveeeeely definitely the best possibility. Yeah, most of my bonsai journey has definitely been "experiential learning" (RIP that trident) but I was gonna genuinely reconsider my horticultural ability if I managed to doom a field maple with a slip-potting. I'll hold off on all my chemicals for now lol. Thanks for the insight!

Welcome aboard Bonsai Nut!

Hmm… Very sad situation.

Wondering what type of media was in the field maple’s root ball ….and which media was the rootball ‘slip potted’ into?

Best,
DSD sends

 

[B.Samedi]

that's a lot of negative things going on for that poor tree IMO

Omg gonna make me feel like the maple is bonsai Gypsy Rose! Part of the reason I decided to go with a field maple was their purported indestructible nature, but I now realize being generally indestructible =/= invincible.

leaves showing discoloration etc before all this happened makes me wonder about previous exposure to fungus

It wasn't as bad as it is now and I do see similar stuff on some leaves from same seller that I didn't repot. However I don't believe they were there on day one. I'm thinking its shock from change in climate either causing leaf scorch or opportunistic infection of a maladjusted tree. As per Wires_Guy_wires suggestion, I'm planning on waiting til the end of the week to see if it persists on the trees... may do some minor fungicide treatment if it doesn't go away.

Don't feel alone, a lot of us fight with patience and lack of knowledge quite regularly.

Appreciate it!

 

[B.Samedi]

Wondering what type of media was in the field maple’s root ball ….and which media was the rootball ‘slip potted’ into?

Og soil (which is still around most of the root ball and has been mixed into the new media as well) was like ~75% pine bark/wood chips and ~25% large pieces of pumice.

New soil is random brand I could find with similar components to Bonsai Jack organic soil (my ususal go to); I want to say the proportions are less-than-desireable however, maybe 60/40 inorganic/organic with inorganic being lava, pumice, and calcined clay (but more lava than I'm used to) and the organic being pine bark and/or other wood chips.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sounds to me like the media of the root ball was wetter than the new media, with root tips dry and shin wet.

Sorry
DSD sends

 

[B.Samedi]

Update on the tree:

The leaves on the canopy that were already affected have gotten slightly worse, though I assumed those were lost leaves to begin with. That being said, leaves lower down seem mostly fine; nothing new (good or bad). I have held off on using any fungicides as recommended and nothing has spread to other trees.

I've been looking at this as good/not terrible results. Tree isn't noticibly worse off (imo) compared to how it was Monday. Should I just wait some more?

 

[rockm]

Update on the tree:

The leaves on the canopy that were already affected have gotten slightly worse, though I assumed those were lost leaves to begin with. That being said, leaves lower down seem mostly fine; nothing new (good or bad). I have held off on using any fungicides as recommended and nothing has spread to other trees.

I've been looking at this as good/not terrible results. Tree isn't noticibly worse off (imo) compared to how it was Monday. Should I just wait some more?

You've got to learn that trees operate on a longer timeline than people. That includes how they respond to disturbances and trauma. Two or three days is not enough time to gauge much of anything. I suspect part of the issue for the tree is overcare--constantly trying to "do" something for it or to it. FWIW, Leaves aren't repaired, they are sacrificed in favor of new growth. Damage to leaves generally progresses and they can look bad progressively as the tree adjusts itself. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Step back, take a breath (or four) and relax. Meet the tree's needs (watering, sun exposure, etc) and let it alone. Don't start dumping fungicides, etc. on it. Stop obsessing over every perceived color change, etc. In a month, you might see some results. You're probably going to lose a lot of leaves in the next month or so. After that is when you might see results with new buds, etc.