Bonsai Growth Mesh Pots vs Ground

[RockyGrowth]

I know this is a topic often talked about, but I wanted to know what could be the best plan to get the most growth out of one of my trees. I have a thin white pine nursery tree that I’m planning on repotting once it reaches spring time, and I was wondering whether it was best to plant it in the ground or in a mesh pot such as a pond basket, as I’ve heard they work well for pines. I know I can expect the most growth from potting in the ground, but my issue is that majority of my garden is shaded over by large trees, whereas I can move a potted plant to a more sunny location which i’ve heard is best for white pines. Whatever the case I would love to hear another opinion as well as wondering if the same can be said for deciduous trees, as I’ve heard deciduous trees don’t grow super fast in pots, but also need a lot of sun, depending on the tree.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Age old question. After 3 years or so ground growing makes a huge difference. Stepping up pots is faster initially. SHADE! Too much and you face risking the life of the tree. If there is enough sun to survive you could still be dealing with lanky growth. I'd use successively larger pots.

 

[mj_barb]

I would prioritize the sun over ground/pot. I have two black pines that are the same age. For two years one has been in the ground in a less than ideal sun spot, and one has been in a 16” square wood box and in full sun. The one that gets the sun is much more vigorous and healthy than the one in the ground. I’ll be digging the in ground one this spring and moving it next to his friend.

 

[Shibui]

what could be the best plan to get the most growth out of one of my trees

Everyone wants most growth. No-one talks about quality. The 2 are not always the same thing.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

I am in a somewhat similar situation, currently. I agree with ‘container and full-sun’ for the tree’s optimal health and development.

I have 10 conifer/evergreens in growing containers that I’ve been shuffling around for maximum sunlight since I’ve had them (less than 1 year). The results make it worthwhile. Eight of them will upsize with repot (3 or 4 into Anderson flats) this coming Spring for widening and thickening.

Additionally, I bought a Hinoki Cypress last week and was torn between potting it after removal from the ground at the nursery or putting it back in the ground at home. It is 3’ in height, very heavy, and difficult to move ()

Ultimately, I decided to dig a hole and place it back into the ground for winter protection until removal in Spring for development in a large container.


Like the other trees, I will eventually be able to move it around for sunlight (and afternoon shade, as HC requires in high temps), but for now I have no choice but leave in ground.

I hope it goes very well with your tree. Happy growing

 

[MGTT]

My limited experience is:
Trident maple
- inground
- full sun exposure (~10hrs/day in summer) has yielded 3-4 feet of branch/trunk growth per year.
- partial sun exposure (~5hrs/day in summer) has given less than 6inches of growth over multiple years.

- felt grow bag on bench with full sun exposure has given about 1 foot per year (and, to Shibui’s point, I’m liking the quality of this tree’s growth the best).

Black Pine -
-inground has given ‘about twice’ the growth of in colander - same sun exposure for each


Note that I believe soil quality, watering and fertilizer also play important parts in this.

 

[Michael P]

Good thread! I am having the same debate with myself about deciduous trees.

 

[czaczaja]

I would prioritize the sun over ground/pot. I have two black pines that are the same age. For two years one has been in the ground in a less than ideal sun spot, and one has been in a 16” square wood box and in full sun. The one that gets the sun is much more vigorous and healthy than the one in the ground. I’ll be digging the in ground one this spring and moving it next to his friend.

Any chance of pics?

 

[BobbyLane]

Buy bigger trees or stick small ones in the ground and play the waiting game.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Everyone wants most growth. No-one talks about quality. The 2 are not always the same thing.

Spot on. I do very little ground growing and my trees grow quite vigorously in grow boxes with sun, water and fert. Depending on the species, I can get multiple feet of growth no problem and thicken trunks. Which brings me to where I find myself today - with trees that have grown well but didn't really have any bonsai work done to them, a/k/a no quality. The trees now need to get whacked up and heal scars/regrow. I guess I will be looking for that Goldilocks zone going forward - a point where I am getting good growth but still developing at least certain bonsai qualities. Or not. At this point in my bonsai development, if I am moving forward with a tree I'm doing good.

 

[RockyGrowth]

Based on all these replies, it seems best then to get a larger mesh pot and replant it into that. I’ve been struggling with finding a good mix for the soil however, as I’m unsure if I should go out of my way to buy akadama for a conifer, or if I should simply go with a different mixture. Would love to hear what mix someone else uses for pines.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Now you done did it. LOL! Soil is determined by species and by geographic location and your ability to water. Also age of tree and of course your pocket book. Akadama has a reputation, but it's not the end all be all. For pines I use a mix heavy in perlite and sand with some aged bark. I water nearly everyday when it's hot and touch the soil when it's less than 80

 

[RockyGrowth]

I'll probably try 80% pumice and around 20% bark mulch as that's what I've seen suggested for growing bonsai, as well as it being quite available for my location, as well as maybe some sphagnum moss.

 

[ACooke]

Sorry to hijack thread a little.

I'm currently toying with the same thoughts and have decided to grow in some on-earth bottomless grow beds.

One of the beds is fairly deep at 400mm/>1ft, so was considering using pond-baskets to plant the trees in with hopes of making eventual removal and integration in to a bonsai style container easier.

1/ Is there any point in growing in a pond-basket/colander/anderson flat and will it hinder growth at all or negate the benefits of growing in a larger medium - I presume likely not?

I managed to find some pond-baskets at a local hardware outlet which I'm not certain will be suitable - my concerns are the size:
2a/ The holes in the sides and bottom are plentiful, but they're small and probably the size of the tip of a pen.
2b/ they're 250mm x 250mm (10inch x 10inch) not tiny, but is that too small in conjunction with the above, for some conifers with which I'm aiming to thicken quickly. Only very small roots will be able to move beyond the pond basket.

I'm mildly concerned about the holes clogging so presuming the pond baskets seem suitable, I'll make sure the soil mix at the extremities of the basket is immediately lined some larger particles like perlite or something like that that won't clog the holes.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

I wouldn't worry too much about drainage in a pond basket especially if your using larger particle medium. I do think 10x10 is on the small side when trying to grow out. Just an idea, but you could build a 2x2 frame of any size and use fiberglass screen on all sides. So far I've only used it on the bottom with braces across for added support. My grow boxes are normally 18x24x5 just over 16 gallons my biggest one is 30x30x5. 18x24x5 is about as big as it gets for one person to easily handle. Because for the big ones we're not just talking the 32 gallons of dirt, but now a tree that has grown-up since putting it in.

 

[PowerTap]

I'll just add that the bonsai wire podcast just had a great discussion of this topic.

A casual conversation about growing trees with Michael and John - Bonsai Wire

Plants, art, and experience wired to perfection. Join bonsai artists Jonas Dupuich, John Eads, Michael Hagedorn, Andrew Robson, and Carmen Leskoviansky for roundtable debates on hot button topics and interviews with bonsai luminaries. Connect with us at talk@bonsaiwirepodcast.com; learn more...

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Are The Best Bonsai Grown By Hobbyists?

In this week’s Bonsai Wire podcast I discuss this idea with John Eads. John Eads owns Left Coast Bonsai, a young-tree bonsai development nursery left of Portland, Oregon, nestled up against the Coa…

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