Blue Atlas Cedar - pot-bound recovery time

[takira]

I'm not familiar enough with Blue Atlas Cedars to know what they can or cannot tolerate, so I'm seeking advice. I purchased this tree partially trained (the trunk, mostly) in June. It arrived in a fairly small pot but seemed healthy, so I resolved to sit on it until spring and repot it at that point. In the intervening time it became difficult to get watering just right - water just shot right through it like there wasn't any soil in the pot. In September, I decided to investigate a little further and found it was actually in an even smaller pot within the pot in which it was shipped. The outer pot held the inner pot, with large gravel and escaped roots (and a bit of mud) in the bottom. The inner pot held what looked and felt like a solid cylinder of roots.

Aware that it wasn't an appropriate time to muck about with roots, but concerned about my ability to keep the thing adequately watered until spring, I set up a sort of a hospital pot for it. I cut the pot off the root ball and set up a larger nursery pot with sphagnum moss in the bottom (and between escaped roots and compacted root-ball) and around the sides of the root ball. Since then it seems to be doing well, but my question is whether I should leave it in this situation another year, or try to pot it this coming spring.

Apart from a little inverse-taper at the (grafted) base, it's a lovely tree and I really don't want to take risks with it, but I don't want to leave it in sphagnum moss long-term if it will be detrimental to the tree. Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[pandacular]

I can’t offer any advice from experience, but my teacher, who has many Cedrus ssp. told me that they don’t like having their roots worked.

Also, welcome to the forum! It would be really helpful if you could add at least a rough location to your profile so others can get a gauge for your seasonality and weather conditions. You can do this by clicking your profile pic in the header, then navigating to preferences.

 

[Scorpius]

Atlas Cedar hate root work with a passion. I would only repot half the root ball this year and do the other the next year. If you work the entire root ball all at once it's 50/50 whether it survives or not.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

I've got two Atlas Blue Cedar from nursery stock. How I got them was, one balled and burlap in heavy clay and the other in a heavy bark mix.Both trees repotted in the spring, both trees bare rooted and both trees didn't suffer a bit. Just keep them moist and out of direct sunlight for a while. I find them to be a good grower and fun to work with. I wouldn't hesitate to repot in the spring when you see a little growth. I got some good advice on Blue Cedar in one of my Cedar threads. Good luck.

 

[takira]

By repotting half the root ball, do you mean teasing out about half the roots then sticking it back in its current pot, letting it recover a year from that and then try going back to tease out the rest of the roots? I had been wondering if that might be a good middle-ground rather than just traumatizing the heck out of it all at once and hoping for the best. I was hoping the sphagnum moss would allow the roots to get better air and moisture and maybe let them spread out a little, though I don't know if that works for roots that are already clustered so tightly together they hold the shape of the pot.

I another cedar from nursery stock that got pretty heavy wiring this summer (I know I didn't wire the lower branches - was debating whether to make it a very-informal upright or quasi-literati), but given it was starting out with normal roots in regular potting soil and a generously sized pot, I'm not as worried about that one. I fear the partially-trained pot-bound one is starting at a disadvantage and I'll be trying to gently undo a couple years of needed-repotting.

 

[pandacular]

I fear the partially-trained pot-bound one is starting at a disadvantage and I'll be trying to gently undo a couple years of needed-repotting.

From what I’ve gathered talking to others, this seems to be the normal course of getting a tree into a bonsai pot. Take heart, you’re not behind and you’re asking a lot of great questions.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

In my first hand experience I prefer to take care of the roots all at once so that I know the tree will be fine before I do any styling. It's like ripping off a bandaid. Style first or root work first, that's the question. I've done my share of nursery stock and I can only think of one or two small plants that I've killed at repot and those could be attributed to being done out of season when I first started bonsai. Since then, when done at the appropriate time, I have had excellent success. Plus I like to let my conifers go a few years between repots and root work two years in a row seems just as hard on it as all at once. These are just my opinions based on my meager experience.

 

[takira]

I definitely get doing root work and styling separately to allow the tree time to recover. I suspect what will end up happening is that (a) I see how the tree overwinters, (b) pull it out of the pot in the spring and see what I'm looking-at. If the tree looks really healthy and the root ball has relaxed somehow, perhaps I will be a little more aggressive with it, but I anticipate it'll be doing some root work, putting it back in the pot and then waiting to see how the tree responds over the spring/summer. If it seems to really be struggling with just a little work, I may not work on it the following year.

I keep telling myself that this will be the hobby that finally teaches me patience, but I'm coming from a very mammalian worldview here.

 

[Scorpius]

In my first hand experience I prefer to take care of the roots all at once so that I know the tree will be fine before I do any styling. It's like ripping off a bandaid. Style first or root work first, that's the question. I've done my share of nursery stock and I can only think of one or two small plants that I've killed at repot and those could be attributed to being done out of season when I first started bonsai. Since then, when done at the appropriate time, I have had excellent success. Plus I like to let my conifers go a few years between repots and root work two years in a row seems just as hard on it as all at once. These are just my opinions based on my meager experience.

Atlas Cedar hate root work. If you work the roots too much they die and knowing how much is to much root work varies from the health of these trees.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Atlas Cedar hate root work. If you work the roots too much they die and knowing how much is to much root work varies from the health of these trees.

With first hand experience working with mine, I've bare rooted and pruned the shit out of the roots to get it in a pot, and when done at the appropriate time and the appropriate aftercare they didn't miss a beat. I find it hard to believe that two different trees at two different times that react the same way are the outliers. Look at my Atlas Blue Cedar threads and see how rough I was with the roots.

 

[snowman04]

With first hand experience working with mine, I've bare rooted and pruned the shit out of the roots to get it in a pot, and when done at the appropriate time and the appropriate aftercare they didn't miss a beat. I find it hard to believe that two different trees at two different times that react the same way are the outliers. Look at my Atlas Blue Cedar threads and see how rough I was with the roots.

I have mine ready for root work next spring and will also see how it takes to the new pot before doing any shaping. Right now it is looking like literati at this point. I'll be watching your results with yours...