Black pine ...... I'm confused

[Joe Dupre']

Having just got my first black pine, I'm looking at a lot of videos on YouTube. I thought the name of the game was to get back budding and therefore branches closer to the trunk. What I tend to see is leggy branches with the old needles stripped off, leaving bare branches with tufts of foliage on the ends. I realize some do this because they like the look. Not fond of it myself. My pine is bit over 1" in diameter and I'm going for a shohin size or a bit bigger. This is going to be my first spring with this tree, and I need some pointers to keep it as dense as I would like.

 

[Gabler]

What I tend to see is leggy branches with the old needles stripped off, leaving bare branches with tufts of foliage on the ends.

If you're talking about needle plucking, the idea is to balance the strength of the branches. Needles are removed from stronger branches to match the foliage on weaker branches.

 

[SeanS]

Looks a lot bigger than 8” (shohin limit). How high up are those first branches?

Not sure there’s much hope for really right branching with this one besides grafting closer to the trunk.

 

[Gabler]

Thread 'Leggy branches on pines'

Apr 2, 2019

I collected these pines last year and they are looking very good this year after being re-potted into better grow pots (pictures show them in the old pots) with recommended bonsai soil. No roots were pruned and the re-pot was done while dormant of course. A lot of the conifers collected like Lodgepole, Ponderosa, and 5 needle pines have pretty leggy limbs. This is probably comes from collecting these trees under a high canopy of older trees, so these trees did not get the best of light. I know that they are a long way from being a good bonsai with their small trunks etc, but would like to...

• August44
• Replies: 19
• Forum: New to Bonsai

• 

 

[bwaynef]

Density comes with structure to the branching. Cutback provides that structure. Your branching isn't sufficient for much density.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Looks a lot bigger than 8” (shohin limit). How high up are those first branches?

Not sure there’s much hope for really right branching with this one besides grafting closer to the trunk.

Eventually I plan to chop it down to the second whorl. I figure I can bend the bottom branches down a bit to cover some of the lower trunk. It's definitely going to be a learning test mule tree and probably won't be a "looker".

 

[Joe Dupre']

This is a five minute doodle of the direction I’m figuring for this tree……. a slight tilt with lowered branches.

 

[Japonicus]

Eventually I plan to chop it down to the second whorl.

Hey Joe. Looks like a nice starter tree
Having already removed upper foliage (whomever), that will slow down the tree immediately.
Do you have a branch in mind yet for the new leader? Back branch, 2nd left branch perhaps? (Neither have wire)
The bar branches should now be dealt with more slowly not having the strength of the old apex.
You need a leader to let run several years. Need increase in vigour. Probably let tree rest a couple years, then plucking some needles
on the branches you plan to remove. Don't want them swelling at the trunk, but shifting vigour to branches you're keeping.
Appears larger wire from whorl #1 to "top" of tree.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

You sure that’s a black pine?

 

[Joe Dupre']

Hey Joe. Looks like a nice starter tree
Having already removed upper foliage (whomever), that will slow down the tree immediately.
Do you have a branch in mind yet for the new leader? Back branch, 2nd left branch perhaps? (Neither have wire)
The bar branches should now be dealt with more slowly not having the strength of the old apex.
You need a leader to let run several years. Need increase in vigour. Probably let tree rest a couple years, then plucking some needles
on the branches you plan to remove. Don't want them swelling at the trunk, but shifting vigour to branches you're keeping.
Appears larger wire from whorl #1 to "top" of tree.

Well, I messed up and put a bit too much strain on the top 10" of the trunk that was there and it didn't like it one bit. NOW I have more of a feeling how much to bend a branch.

Not sure about the leader yet. Not even sure of a front. When that is established, I'll bend up a new leader. I will definitely let the tree recover for a couple of years and then prune unneeded branches to prevent swelling. Being my first black pine, I'll be watching it carefully to get a feel of how it grows throughout a whole year. I go a lot by feel and not by exact dates and procedures. That method has worked for all of the 30 species I've tackled so far.

 

[Coppersdad]

@Joe Dupre' If I were to give you any advice for you to grow in your knowledge of Japanese Black Pines, your first choice should be the senior members of your local club. Beyond that, on the Internet I advise you to follow Jonas Dupiuch. Although his climate in California will be different than yours, his advice is very clear and your long term results will be very good. It's a great species to work on but there is a rather fascinating learning curve. Good Luck!

 

[Joe Dupre']

Thanks. I've watched a few of his videos and they are detailed and understandable.