Best time to chop?

[c54fun]

Wanting to know the best time to trunk chop a Japanese maple and a bald cypress. I live in Dallas Texas.
The maple is mainly for learning. Want to chop and later want to attempt to air layer above nasty graft.

Thanks and happy holidays.

 

[RobertB]

The way I understand, for trees in development, you want to chop in spring when buds are starting to push. Not sure on the cypress but I am pretty sure you have to repot the maple at the same time to reduce its roots, otherwise it will bleed heavily. I actually have the same questions and will be doing the same on both species this spring so hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

 

[just.wing.it]

I actually have the same questions and will be doing the same on both species this spring so hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

Likewise over here too!
I agree with you on the maple.
I was gonna let my BC run another year, but I think now that I'm gonna chop it down....might let the maple run instead.

I plan to chop and do first repot at the same time, when I see buds moving in early spring.

 

[c54fun]

Ive heard about reducing the root ball when doing a chop. Just not sure the best timing for the maple and the bald cypress. I'm sure someone has a good idea. For some reason I thought @BillsBayou said to chop cypress in January.

 

[just.wing.it]

Ive heard about reducing the root ball when doing a chop. Just not sure the best timing for the maple and the bald cypress. I'm sure someone has a good idea. For some reason I thought @BillsBayou said to chop cypress in January.

Bill is chopping in January in the bayou...
Not that you couldn't get away with sealing the cut and all....but I prefer to wait up here by the Mason Dixon.

 

[Victorim]

I would think spring is best as it's waking up for both bc and maples, and repot at the same time. One maple I got late spring, didn't touch the roots but choped and it bled like hell for weeks. It died in the summer, but I didn't think it was in the best of health anyway. Jan for me would be early, so more risk, but the tree would be dormant so..

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Maple Will lose sap when hard pruned in spring. Do it when leaves drop or when leaves hardened. I would do it in summer.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I did mine last year after leaf fall (around December here) and root pruned and repotted at bud swelling in spring (can't remember when). no problems so far.

 

[just.wing.it]

Maple Will lose sap when hard pruned in spring. Do it when leaves drop or when leaves hardened. I would do it in summer.

This is my fear....
Maybe best to wait for summer dormancy???

 

[Dav4]

Trees don’t bleed, and sap loss will not affect the health of the tree. I’ve always chopped late winter at or just before repotting. If you are worried about oozing sap, seal the chop site well and reduce the root mass.

 

[c54fun]

Trees don’t bleed, and sap loss will not affect the health of the tree. I’ve always chopped late winter at or just before repotting. If you are worried about oozing sap, seal the chop site well and reduce the root mass.

Thanks @Dav4

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

This is my fear....
Maybe best to wait for summer dormancy???

You can always cut off a branch in spring and after a few hours evaluate if there is a lot of sap flowing. If not, cut back otherwise wait.

 

[leatherback]

If you chop maple any time over winter without reducing the roots you have a different issue: The first few leaves that come out will be part of the regular spring flush. These have long internodes. You want short internodes however. You can get this by either also reducing the roots at the same time, or chopping after the spring flush has hardened off. In both those ways you get shorter internodes.

I have just reorganized my growing beds & chopped.

 

[BillsBayou]

I chop when I dig a bald cypress, whether it is December, January, February, but not March. I don't dig in March. There's snakes in March, and April, and May... Water moccasins an copperheads. No.

We don't usually get below the upper 20s after the end of January. If I had a potted tree growing HEALTHY AND STRONG THE PREVIOUS YEAR, I could chop it at the end of January. If you want to chop a tree, watch the buds every day. If they start to swell before the end of January, chop then. If not, first week of February is about the latest I'd wait. We get nights in the low 30s and days in 40s and 50s in February (see note below). That's when the buds seem to really push, but some trees wait until March (to spite me and drive up my blood pressure). If the tree is potted, leave the roots alone. None of my trees are in the ground, so my uneducated advice for in-ground BCs is to treat it like a swamp dig, chop the trunk, remove all remaining branches to the trunk, and cut the roots to potting depth.

Shit, one more thing. Besides only chopping trees that were healthy and strong the previous year, THE TREE CAN NOT HAVE BEEN DUG AND POTTED THE PREVIOUS YEAR. The trees need their rest after being dug. That's why, when I dig, I cut for the root depth for my black mason tubs, and I chop to a height a few inches above my estimated target height. I get it all done in one shot. Digging a BC, like most all trees, is a very stressful event. Doing a chop the very next Winter robs the tree of all the effort it took to get those first-year shoots growing. Then you have a very weak (or dying) tree.

Improvisational potting:
Christmas tree watering pots. They're typically green wide, and only a few inches deep. I "liberated" some pots from a vacant lot in March. They were left by a Christmas tree company. You could buy your own, but they're sold by the 1000-lot size.
Restaurant bus tubs. They come in 5, 7, and 9-inch depths. I like the 9-inch depth, but I only pot 5 inches deep, and fill the rest with water. Always keep small bottles of insecticidal oil nearby to keep mosquitoes from growing.
Medium mason/mortar/mixing tubs. Find them for under $6 at local home improvement/construction supply stores in the concrete department. Roughly 20x26x7 LxWxD and 10-gallons in size.
Large mixing tubs, 2 types: There are two types of large mixing tubs, and the same store will change their supplier on a whim. The first is roughly the same length and width as the medium tub, but it is much deeper. I only recommend this if you are potting to 6-inches deep and flooding the rest for root-swelling. The other type of tub is only 7-9 inches deep, but 24x36 long and wide. This is good for big big big trees (and $800 bonsai pots).

Note on New Orleans Winters: We live between the warm gulf an the cold continent. Sometimes the two clash and compress the air as they do. That's how we can have days in the 80s during the Winter. I only mention that to show that everything I say is relative to life here in the South. Houston and Mobile are in the same situation. Just 100 miles north of here, and my advice may mean nothing. That's why I'm trying to explain WHY I choose a particular month, and not just WHEN.

 

[Vin]

I chop when I dig a bald cypress, whether it is December, January, February, but not March. I don't dig in March. There's snakes in March, and April, and May... Water moccasins an copperheads. No.

We don't usually get below the upper 20s after the end of January. If I had a potted tree growing HEALTHY AND STRONG THE PREVIOUS YEAR, I could chop it at the end of January. If you want to chop a tree, watch the buds every day. If they start to swell before the end of January, chop then. If not, first week of February is about the latest I'd wait. We get nights in the low 30s and days in 40s and 50s in February (see note below). That's when the buds seem to really push, but some trees wait until March (to spite me and drive up my blood pressure). If the tree is potted, leave the roots alone. None of my trees are in the ground, so my uneducated advice for in-ground BCs is to treat it like a swamp dig, chop the trunk, remove all remaining branches to the trunk, and cut the roots to potting depth.

Shit, one more thing. Besides only chopping trees that were healthy and strong the previous year, THE TREE CAN NOT HAVE BEEN DUG AND POTTED THE PREVIOUS YEAR. The trees need their rest after being dug. That's why, when I dig, I cut for the root depth for my black mason tubs, and I chop to a height a few inches above my estimated target height. I get it all done in one shot. Digging a BC, like most all trees, is a very stressful event. Doing a chop the very next Winter robs the tree of all the effort it took to get those first-year shoots growing. Then you have a very weak (or dying) tree.

Improvisational potting:
Christmas tree watering pots. They're typically green wide, and only a few inches deep. I "liberated" some pots from a vacant lot in March. They were left by a Christmas tree company. You could buy your own, but they're sold by the 1000-lot size.
Restaurant bus tubs. They come in 5, 7, and 9-inch depths. I like the 9-inch depth, but I only pot 5 inches deep, and fill the rest with water. Always keep small bottles of insecticidal oil nearby to keep mosquitoes from growing.
Medium mason/mortar/mixing tubs. Find them for under $6 at local home improvement/construction supply stores in the concrete department. Roughly 20x26x7 LxWxD and 10-gallons in size.
Large mixing tubs, 2 types: There are two types of large mixing tubs, and the same store will change their supplier on a whim. The first is roughly the same length and width as the medium tub, but it is much deeper. I only recommend this if you are potting to 6-inches deep and flooding the rest for root-swelling. The other type of tub is only 7-9 inches deep, but 24x36 long and wide. This is good for big big big trees (and $800 bonsai pots).

Note on New Orleans Winters: We live between the warm gulf an the cold continent. Sometimes the two clash and compress the air as they do. That's how we can have days in the 80s during the Winter. I only mention that to show that everything I say is relative to life here in the South. Houston and Mobile are in the same situation. Just 100 miles north of here, and my advice may mean nothing. That's why I'm trying to explain WHY I choose a particular month, and not just WHEN.

I like it..

 

[c54fun]

I chop when I dig a bald cypress, whether it is December, January, February, but not March. I don't dig in March. There's snakes in March, and April, and May... Water moccasins an copperheads. No.

We don't usually get below the upper 20s after the end of January. If I had a potted tree growing HEALTHY AND STRONG THE PREVIOUS YEAR, I could chop it at the end of January. If you want to chop a tree, watch the buds every day. If they start to swell before the end of January, chop then. If not, first week of February is about the latest I'd wait. We get nights in the low 30s and days in 40s and 50s in February (see note below). That's when the buds seem to really push, but some trees wait until March (to spite me and drive up my blood pressure). If the tree is potted, leave the roots alone. None of my trees are in the ground, so my uneducated advice for in-ground BCs is to treat it like a swamp dig, chop the trunk, remove all remaining branches to the trunk, and cut the roots to potting depth.

Shit, one more thing. Besides only chopping trees that were healthy and strong the previous year, THE TREE CAN NOT HAVE BEEN DUG AND POTTED THE PREVIOUS YEAR. The trees need their rest after being dug. That's why, when I dig, I cut for the root depth for my black mason tubs, and I chop to a height a few inches above my estimated target height. I get it all done in one shot. Digging a BC, like most all trees, is a very stressful event. Doing a chop the very next Winter robs the tree of all the effort it took to get those first-year shoots growing. Then you have a very weak (or dying) tree.

Improvisational potting:
Christmas tree watering pots. They're typically green wide, and only a few inches deep. I "liberated" some pots from a vacant lot in March. They were left by a Christmas tree company. You could buy your own, but they're sold by the 1000-lot size.
Restaurant bus tubs. They come in 5, 7, and 9-inch depths. I like the 9-inch depth, but I only pot 5 inches deep, and fill the rest with water. Always keep small bottles of insecticidal oil nearby to keep mosquitoes from growing.
Medium mason/mortar/mixing tubs. Find them for under $6 at local home improvement/construction supply stores in the concrete department. Roughly 20x26x7 LxWxD and 10-gallons in size.
Large mixing tubs, 2 types: There are two types of large mixing tubs, and the same store will change their supplier on a whim. The first is roughly the same length and width as the medium tub, but it is much deeper. I only recommend this if you are potting to 6-inches deep and flooding the rest for root-swelling. The other type of tub is only 7-9 inches deep, but 24x36 long and wide. This is good for big big big trees (and $800 bonsai pots).

Note on New Orleans Winters: We live between the warm gulf an the cold continent. Sometimes the two clash and compress the air as they do. That's how we can have days in the 80s during the Winter. I only mention that to show that everything I say is relative to life here in the South. Houston and Mobile are in the same situation. Just 100 miles north of here, and my advice may mean nothing. That's why I'm trying to explain WHY I choose a particular month, and not just WHEN.

Thanks @BillsBayou plenty of good info for me to use in my location. Just what I was looking for and then some. Your the go to guy for cypress and you have a great way of explaining yourself and how it may be different in other areas than where you live. I'm pretty new to cypress and I don't want to mess up these trees. Your info and the others will help a lot.

 

[Paulpash]

Various trains of thought :

Many bonsai pros advocate chopping in Autumn towards the end of leaf drop but when significant resources moving down can start the healing off process) . This is to avoid excessive sap loss (Ryan Neil, Michael Hagedorn). Others believe the loss to be inconsequential (Bill Valavanis is quoted as saying a Japanese maple never died through excessive bleeding).

The more important thing is how you chop. Japanese Maples can have a very significant & unpredictable compartmentalization response, leading to trunk dieback. I would strongly recommend that you chop well above your next intended leader, cutting straight across. Use sharp, clean & sterilized saws. If anything pops above your chop point then eliminate it. Let the trunk naturally die back to your chop point and clean it up later. If you cut too close the CODIT response can girdle your new leader and you will lose it. Seal all chop points regardless of timing - pseudomonas syringae enters through pruning cut points).

I have seen responses ranging from very little dieback to 6 inches. These responses are a mix of straight up chops on my stock trees to severing significant layers. Certain varieties react more severely such as Sangu Kaku.

 

[BillsBayou]

I like it..

Vin, I'd imagine you get the same clash of fronts in Panama City. 80° on Monday. 40° on Wednesday. 30° on Friday. (Repeat until Spring)

 

[Cajunrider]

I chop when I dig a bald cypress, whether it is December, January, February, but not March. I don't dig in March. There's snakes in March, and April, and May... Water moccasins an copperheads. No.

We don't usually get below the upper 20s after the end of January. If I had a potted tree growing HEALTHY AND STRONG THE PREVIOUS YEAR, I could chop it at the end of January. If you want to chop a tree, watch the buds every day. If they start to swell before the end of January, chop then. If not, first week of February is about the latest I'd wait. We get nights in the low 30s and days in 40s and 50s in February (see note below). That's when the buds seem to really push, but some trees wait until March (to spite me and drive up my blood pressure). If the tree is potted, leave the roots alone. None of my trees are in the ground, so my uneducated advice for in-ground BCs is to treat it like a swamp dig, chop the trunk, remove all remaining branches to the trunk, and cut the roots to potting depth.

Shit, one more thing. Besides only chopping trees that were healthy and strong the previous year, THE TREE CAN NOT HAVE BEEN DUG AND POTTED THE PREVIOUS YEAR. The trees need their rest after being dug. That's why, when I dig, I cut for the root depth for my black mason tubs, and I chop to a height a few inches above my estimated target height. I get it all done in one shot. Digging a BC, like most all trees, is a very stressful event. Doing a chop the very next Winter robs the tree of all the effort it took to get those first-year shoots growing. Then you have a very weak (or dying) tree.

Improvisational potting:
Christmas tree watering pots. They're typically green wide, and only a few inches deep. I "liberated" some pots from a vacant lot in March. They were left by a Christmas tree company. You could buy your own, but they're sold by the 1000-lot size.
Restaurant bus tubs. They come in 5, 7, and 9-inch depths. I like the 9-inch depth, but I only pot 5 inches deep, and fill the rest with water. Always keep small bottles of insecticidal oil nearby to keep mosquitoes from growing.
Medium mason/mortar/mixing tubs. Find them for under $6 at local home improvement/construction supply stores in the concrete department. Roughly 20x26x7 LxWxD and 10-gallons in size.
Large mixing tubs, 2 types: There are two types of large mixing tubs, and the same store will change their supplier on a whim. The first is roughly the same length and width as the medium tub, but it is much deeper. I only recommend this if you are potting to 6-inches deep and flooding the rest for root-swelling. The other type of tub is only 7-9 inches deep, but 24x36 long and wide. This is good for big big big trees (and $800 bonsai pots).

Note on New Orleans Winters: We live between the warm gulf an the cold continent. Sometimes the two clash and compress the air as they do. That's how we can have days in the 80s during the Winter. I only mention that to show that everything I say is relative to life here in the South. Houston and Mobile are in the same situation. Just 100 miles north of here, and my advice may mean nothing. That's why I'm trying to explain WHY I choose a particular month, and not just WHEN.

If you ever come to Moss Bluff to dig BC, give me a yell.