Best red Japanese Maple

[Nuffel]

Hello,

I'm looking for a red maple for my collection.
Ideally, the best color in spring AND autumn, the longest lasting color and the best characteristics for building a bonsai.

I could use some help from the Maple experts here.

I was thinking Chishio, Seigen or Deshojo.
I think these are the most used in bonsai?

Brian said Chishio is slow and he wouldn't buy it again. With that info Chishio is out.

Keep it or Cut it?

Feels like cheating to jump straight to the end of an 18 page progression. For those who prefer the reader’s digest version:

www.bonsainut.com

Then I found this old thread where MACH5, Bill V., Adair M. and others said that Seigen is notorious for poor autumn colors.

show your seigen maple!

I can't get enough of looking at these and they seem so scarce!

www.bonsainut.com

Also Seigen is 10 times as expensive as Deshojo where I live.
10 times as expensive and poor autumn colors sounds like a bad deal...

Is Deshojo the clear winner?
What are the drawbacks of Deshojo?

Are there even better cultivars that I have not mentioned?

Thank you

 

[leatherback]

shindeshojo should have better colors

 

[Nuffel]

shindeshojo should have better colors

Thank you.
@leatherback do you know a source for this one in The Netherlands / Europe / Germany?
Doesn't need to be a tree, cutting is fine.

A quick search with google:
Nothing at bonsaiplaza, bonsaischule, ...

More difficult to find than Deshojo it seems.

 

[leatherback]

Thank you.
@leatherback do you know a source for this one in The Netherlands / Europe / Germany?
Doesn't need to be a tree, cutting is fine.

A quick search with google:
Nothing at bonsaiplaza, bonsaischule, ...

More difficult to find than Deshojo it seems.

No idea. It could also be that this is one of those "lets pop on a new name" situations, where all the new deshojos are actually just deshojo, but properly propagated through cuttings, rather than a seedling bloodline. I am not sure about mine; I was after a larger deshojo a few years ago. I am not sure whether the seller told me that it was a shindeshojo. I have a japanese import deshojo too, and cannot really see any differences.

Now when it comes to color, growing conditions do have a big effect too. It could be that you are chasing after a specific variety, whereas your growing conditions might be more important.

 

[leatherback]

A quick search with google:

Try searching for non-bonsai

https://pflanzen-fuer-dich.de/Acer-palmatum-Shin-deshojo

 

[Nuffel]

Try searching for non-bonsai

https://pflanzen-fuer-dich.de/Acer-palmatum-Shin-deshojo

Superb ! Thank you.
@leatherback are you visiting the Trophy? Maybe I'll see you there I'm going 17th.
Do you already have rooted cuttings from your Arakawa?

Grt

 

[leatherback]

@leatherback are you visiting the Trophy?

Yes. I am helping out (moderating the demonstrations on both days).

 

[Thatguy85]

Thank you.
@leatherback do you know a source for this one in The Netherlands / Europe / Germany?
Doesn't need to be a tree, cutting is fine.

A quick search with google:
Nothing at bonsaiplaza, bonsaischule, ...

More difficult to find than Deshojo it seems.

Esveld in Boskoop had a lot of Japanese maples, I think that's your best bet.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

When I saw (red) I immediately thought of home shojo, but then you listed the red and changing varieties. I would have to say Shindeshojo is my favorite. It seems to me a bit more vigorous and less prone to health issues at least for me.

 

[rockm]

My in-ground Arakawa (rough bark) JM reliably has extremely vivid red and orange fall colors. I believe this variety as bonsai retains those intense reds. @MACH5 has one that is spectacular if I remember right.

 

[Nuffel]

My in-ground Arakawa (rough bark) JM reliably has extremely vivid red and orange fall colors. I believe this variety as bonsai retains those intense reds. @MACH5 has one that is spectacular if I remember right.

View attachment 523644View attachment 523645

Fabulous tree !!!

 

[MACH5]

The challenge with true red leaf Japanese maples is that they are weaker. So more care and patience is needed to build them as a bonsai. Deshojo being a very popular one since they can produce good autumn color. But again they are not as vigorous so more time will be needed to make a bonsai of good caliber out of them. Bill V. has some exceptional Deshojos. Apart from his skills, he has been growing them for the better part of 60 years and counting.

I have Seigen and it is stunning in spring but usually very poor fall coloration.

My Arakawa is a bit of an anomaly. It is red in the spring while most are green with a tinge of red. If you must stick with a red leaf Acer palmatum I might go with deshojo all things considered.

 

[Lorax7]

Depending on how strict your interpretation of the common name, Japanese maple, this may or may not fit. It’s not a palmatum but is a maple native to Asia, including Japan, I believe. Acer ginnala (Amur maple) has reliably extraordinary red fall foliage. It always puts on a fireworks show in the fall and outshines anything else on my benches.

 

[Contact]

I agree with all said tilli now, I've a deshojo, a chisio improved, a shindeshojo in my collection but with not all of these I'm lucky with autumn colors (clearly this depend by the cultivation too). You have to consider some other cultivar too that maintain a good tone of red during all the season, for example Shaina or Pixie or skeeters broom...these are dwarf Maples that I'm trying as bonsai. Simply other options ...

 

[Weta]

My grasshopper thoughts are it feels like placement has a part, how much sun and what time of the day.

 

[baron]

Bonsai Center Ginkgo

Bonsai verkoop, teelt en workshops

bonsaicenterginkgo.wordpress.com

Good or maybe best place for maples