Ben's Introduction And Another Wisteria Fertilization Question

[BigBen]

Hello Everyone,
I've been "lurking" around these parts for a while now and recently signed-up, so I figured I'd "formally" introduce myself.
I enjoy long walks off of short piers, slow boats to China, and talking to myself (Hey, I'm a good listener). LOL...

OK, I'm 58 & live on Long Island (Zone 7 - 7A) and have been enjoying Bonsai forever. I did a few trees MANY years ago, then family & life in general happened.

Now I'm 100% back into it, as I'm setting myself up for retirement within the next 2-4 years or so, by re-engaging in my hobbies, including restarting my Bonsai journey.
I have my new set of Kaneshin tools, along with my original lesser tool set ready to go.

Currently working on a couple Cotoneaster, baby Oaks, Chinese Elm, Boxwood, Birch Yamadori from my own yard, soon to be Yamadori Rose Of Sharon from my own yard, and 8 Amethyst Falls Wisteria.

I've wanted to create Wisteria Bonsai ever since I can remember, and after having searched in all the wrong places for the Wisteria. Then in May of this year (2017), I actually found 8 of them at the closest nursery to our home (which is oddly enough, right around the block!).
The attached pics show the 8 Wisteria that I scored form the nursery as the flower buds were forming in May, and when they began to pop in June.
I got them for only $150 cash deal in 3.5 gallon pots, which included a few perennials & annuals too.

I've already done an initial pruning, and now most of the Wisteria are starting to form new flower buds.
It's a beautiful thing!
My question is what do you think about feeding the Wisteria one of the pictured 0-50-30 formulas now?
Any and all input is extremely welcome.

I'm looking forward to being able to assist others here, once I get going!

Thank You All,
Ben N

https://www.amazon.com/Grow-More-50...ref=nav_ya_signin?ie=UTF8&captcha_verified=1&

https://www.tindaraorchidsupplies.com/nutrients-and-fertilizers/Grow-More-Grow-Bloom-0-50-30

 

[BigBen]

Oh, and before I forget...
I've already given them just a little Espoma 0-50-0.

Oops... Just noticed I misspelled FERTILIZATION in the title up-top... Sorry, my Bad.
Maybe a Mod can correct it.

Thanks Again,
Ben

 

[GrimLore]

I'm setting myself up for retirement within the next 2-4 years or so, by re-engaging in my hobbies, including restarting my Bonsai journey.

Welcome back to the Journey and Gratz on the upcoming retirement.

I have raised them in the past and used Grotek 0-39-25 from bud break until bloom drop. I do that with all Nitrogen Fixing plants and it seems it is the only fertilization they need or seem to during that time. I really can't say if it helps in organic substrate but does not hurt either. Back then I was not using organic and everything received a lot of fertilizer.

Grimmy

 

[BigBen]

Hi Grimmy,
Thank you very much for the reply & well wishes for when I retire.
I really appreciate the guidance.

I finished pruning them yesterday, and now I'll leave 'em alone, until a light pruning in late Winter (as I've read/heard).
Does anyone want to share their thoughts on that aspect of Wisteria?

Thanks Again,
BigBen

 

[sorce]

misspelled FERTIL

No one is gonna miss THAT... L!

Nice W's!

Throw you another Welcome to Crazy on your thread!

Big Ben checking that final time clock eh?

Good for you! Good tools too!
And Ice cream....I mean....
Good Humor!

Sorce

 

[BigBen]

LOFN'L... Thank you Sorce!

Yea, I wanted to get 'em pruned before it's too dang late.

I purchased a bunch of Kaneshin Tools by setting-up my business account there.
So I got one helluva nice SS set for myself, as well as assorted extras to eventually add to my online business website.

BigBen

 

[GrimLore]

Yea, I wanted to get 'em pruned before it's too dang late.

I used to grow them and honest HERE they are more of an invasive plant. Nice though and well worth the time and the smiles I received when I gave them away - they took way to much time and space. I do have plans for another but we will see how the years work out...

My notes on them were weak so I took a bit and found a very good article concerning "pruning" and "timing". This article matches what I did by instinct and works here - even cooler it can be modified to your climate. These plants are no mystery, just another shrub as are cotoneaster, serrisa, quince, and many others. No need in my book to treat them different here until Winter where some get moved to more sun or the shed depending on the plant.

http://www.finegardening.com/pruning-and-training-wisteria

Grimmy

 

[BigBen]

Thanks for that very informative link, Grimmy.
I'm assuming that my Amethyst Falls should be treaded similarly?

Thanks Again,
BigBen

 

[BigBen]

Yesterday, I ordered a big-ass tub of Beastie Bloomz 0-50-30 for the Wisteria amongst other plants (along with a 12" turntable, and parts for me to build a large adjustable height turntable).
Should be here in a few days.

Thanks Muchly,
BigBen

 

[rockm]

For wisteria, I wouldn't work with trunks any smaller than four or five inches in diameter. Simple issue of mechanics and art.

Smaller than that and the blooms and leaves overwhelm everything, well, at least they look like a haystack in the spring a lot sooner than larger specimens. Fertilizing a wisteria is mostly useless. Blooms are pushed primarily by hard pruning and root mass. Also, it helps if you start with a plant that has a history of blooming--If you get one that hasn't bloomed before , you can be in for a very long wait until it does.

Anyway, I'd work on developing those trunks to support the blooms. I'd let the things grow as much as possible for a few years to bulk up the trunks. I wouldn't start pruning them for blooms, until those trunks have developed. Heavy flowering racemes need a muscular looking trunk to visually support their bonsai image...just sayin.

Also, FWIW, I kind of chuckle at people in my area that actually pay for a wisteria from a nursery--even if it's a "special" variety. They grow wild here and they develop muscular, sometimes massive trunks that are pretty easily collected for free (with landowner permission). That you paid $150 for eight gives me the shakes, BUT I don't think wisteria is as vigorous up in LI as it is in the South, so it may not be as readily available for collection.

 

[BigBen]

Thanks Rockm.
Yea, the Wisteria we see around here are the wild-ass growing varieties.
Until I scored these 8, I had never seen the Amethyst Falls Wisteria here.
And these were flowering already and are currently about to bloom again, plus I've already taken quite a few cuttings from them which most have rooted.
Oddly enough, some of those cuttings I took, are pushing a bud or two as well.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I admire your passion I consider wisteria an advanced species for bonsai. Viney growth, large complex leaves that won't reduce, etc. That said, when they are in bloom I don't know of anything else that will beat them!

Considering the long racemes of flowers as well as the long compound leaves, you really need to think "big" when you plan your design. I agree with everything that @rockm has pointed out - go big or go home So work on bulking those plants up, and think about how you will create an interesting trunk line that will show off those hanging blooms!

 

[Victorim]

Would love to find a big wisteria.. got one about ten years ago at my old place to grow over an arch. Snuffed it in year six but all that was done was planted and watered. No blooms. Can take seven to ten years even just growing naturally though no?

@Guy Vitale has a great looking one on his avatar

 

[RobertB]

I like wisteria but the trunk rot i am not fond of. Mine are rotting and it pisses me off.

 

[BigBen]

I admire your passion ...
View attachment 159852

Thank you very much, I really appreciate that.

I guess my "OCD" has once again kicked-in, because I'm also a "Go Big, Or Stay The Heck Home" kinda guy too.

I'm supposed to be receiving the 0-50-30 Bloomz fert any day now.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Thank you very much, I really appreciate that.

I guess my "OCD" has once again kicked-in, because I'm also a "Go Big, Or Stay The Heck Home" kinda guy too.

I'm supposed to be receiving the 0-50-30 Bloomz fert any day now.

Here is the key for your happiness with bonsai I hope you have lots of yard space. Bonsai requires time. So if you are a crazy hard-charger (like myself) you need lots of trees because otherwise you will kill them with attention. You need to be able to prioritize your trees and say "these need attention annually" versus "these need attention monthly". First mistake of beginners is to assume that all trees are at the same stage of development and need the same level of care. If a tree is still in early development, you need to let it run - let it grow freely. Otherwise if you keep trimming and clipping and messing with it, it will always stay a sapling - a small little thing that no one will ever mistake as an old tree in nature.

Like everything else, there are subtleties and nuances - based on environment, species, etc. You have to learn tree species - and learn how they will respond to various actions. But the key is to embrace the idea that you can only rush a tree so much... and so you need to move to another tree and let the first one rest.

 

[rockm]

I like wisteria but the trunk rot i am not fond of. Mine are rotting and it pisses me off.

That is, unfortunately, kind of goes with big collected wisteria. Since it's a vine, wisteria wood is soft and prone to rot anyway. The die back can be huge, or localized. It's a crap shoot. It can take a couple of years of just letting the collected plant grow wild to stabilize it.

The wisteria bonsai bug bites a lot of people. Bit me, but I'm recovering. They are spectacular bonsai subjects (for about two weeks in early June/late May ;-)) but then they are mostly a pain in the ass ;-)

 

[BigBen]

Thanks everyone.
I LOVE this place!!!

I do have another question or three, regarding my Amethyst Falls Wisteria though.
They're currently in 3.5 gallon pots and probably root bound, as they flowered this year and pushing a few buds again.

Should I repot them in much larger pots (maybe 10 gallons or maybe even much larger) over tiles or no tiles, or plant them in the ground over tiles/no tiles?

OR, repot them in big-ass pots with a bunch of small drilled holes in the pots, THEN plant the drilled pots and all into the ground for root development?

And would that make much difference whether I plant them in the ground or in reasonably large pots?

Also, when should I repot/plant them?

My goal is to allow for trunk thickening/development.

Thanks again, I really appreciate all the help.
BigBen

 

[rockm]

Thanks everyone.
I LOVE this place!!!

I do have another question or three, regarding my Amethyst Falls Wisteria though.
They're currently in 3.5 gallon pots and probably root bound, as they flowered this year and pushing a few buds again.

Should I repot them in much larger pots (maybe 10 gallons or maybe even much larger) over tiles or no tiles, or plant them in the ground over tiles/no tiles?

OR, repot them in big-ass pots with a bunch of small drilled holes in the pots, THEN plant the drilled pots and all into the ground for root development?

And would that make much difference whether I plant them in the ground or in reasonably large pots?

Also, when should I repot/plant them?

My goal is to allow for trunk thickening/development.

Thanks again, I really appreciate all the help.
BigBen

From what I understand "Amethyst Falls" (wisteria frutescens) is not as vigorous a grower as the Chinese wisteria (wisteria chinensis), nor is it as strong a bloomer.

I'd get the vines in the ground--(inside a bigger container in the ground might be a way to do it) and let them go for five years or more, untouched, You're probably going to be sacrificing blossoms for new growth--which isn't a bad thing in developing a stouter trunks.

Letting them grow up something like an arbor or a nearby tree will speed them up a bit...Wisteria like cool root and hot sun on their tops--from their natural habit of growing from the base of woodland up into the canopy of the forest. I normally wouldn't recommend planting wisteria near any structure, but this isn't the Chinese monster wisteria which can literally tear down buildings and smother big trees.

 

[coh]

"Amethyst Falls" is definitely not as vigorous as the standard Chinese or Japanese wisteria, but it will gradually and relentlessly expand its territory over time. I picked one up a few years ago, probably similar in size to the ones in this thread. After growing it for a year or so I decided to just plant it in the ground as a landscape specimen (that could potentially be harvested for bonsai later). Why...I just don't find it nearly as attractive as the regular wisterias. The flower clusters are short/more compact and don't flow as beautifully as the other wisterias. And they don't have that wonderful fragrance...to me, they smell a bit like cat pee. On the plus side, the growth is more manageable and they do re-bloom periodically throughout the summer.

I'm not saying they can't make an attractive bonsai specimen, I've seen some...just for me, with limited time/space and too many plants already, I'd rather go for a plant that has features I really like/appreciate (long flowing flower clusters and fragrance).