Beginner Bloodgood

[EnderStar101]

Hello, very much a beginner here, learning as much as I can. Got a bloodgood from the hardware store today in hopes of nursing into a bonsai, and what I've heard is mixed; that they can make great bonsai but also struggle with internode size and leaf reduction.

The short term plan for the next few seasons is to just keep it healthy and happy. I want to try and make a bonsai with it regardless, but my long term plan is not as solid as I'd like. Was going to chop it quite low come spring but not sure if I should dedicate more time to developing the trunk size if it's going to have to be bigger to make up for the internode size. Any advice is appreciated!

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I’ve tried these as bonsai and out of the three I tried, only one turned out looking like much. Like you’ve already read, I had trouble with internode length and leaf size. That being said, the one that had potential did end up making a decent medium sized pre bonsai before I sold it. They are generally strong growers and I found took to pruning and back budded well.

 

[EnderStar101]

Ok, so I've now shifted my long term plan to trunk growth, with the aim of getting roughly 2" or more of thickness. How much worse is growing it in a container vs just putting it in the ground? If container growing isn't THAT much slower, what kind of containers should I look for?

 

[Shibui]

No graft apparent which is unusual for a named JM cultivar but good for you for bonsai.

Theoretically, a large enough container and perfect care should give equal thickening to ground growing but potted plant care is rarely perfect so the reality is that pot growth is likely to be around half that of ground growing at best. That is not always a bad thing. Growing in the ground is not fool proof. Many things can still go wrong and when they go wrong in fast growing they can go wrong in a big way. Container growing may be a bit slower but you have much more control and more likelihood of ending up with a better result.

Many US growers love the flatter Anderson flats for developing bonsai, claiming they help develop the flatter root system for bonsai but shallow pots are not without problems. Shallow dries out much quicker and any dry will reduce growth. Nutrients leach out quicker and any reduction in nutrient also affects growth rates.
I prefer to use good root pruning techniques to develop flat root system. A good nebari can still be developed in a deeper pot and they don't tend to dry out quite as quick and also retain nutrient and temperature better than flatter containers IMHO.

There's not much to indicate current pot size but I guess around 20 cm 10" pot?
You could double the size of the pot without causing any problems but I would not do that now. The tree has leaves on so we assume you are somewhere in northern hemisphere. Even if you do up pot now you are unlikely to get much growth between now and end of this growing season. By the look of the tree, pot and soil there's still lots of space for growth in the current pot for this year.
I would recommend a thorough repot and root prune before next spring. Commercially grown trees are notorious for having tangled and misshapen roots. Good nebari is very high on JM list of positive features and it will be much easier to address any problems now, before the trunk and roots are thicker. After addressing the roots it can be potted into a larger container or in the ground.

You will note that I have referred to location being important when giving and receiving advice. You may have noticed that others have a location in their personal profile which helps other members give advice based on your climate and conditions.

Realistically you should be allowing at least 5 years and more like 10-15 years to develop a good bonsai from a tree at this stage.

 

[EnderStar101]

No graft apparent which is unusual for a named JM cultivar but good for you for bonsai.

Theoretically, a large enough container and perfect care should give equal thickening to ground growing but potted plant care is rarely perfect so the reality is that pot growth is likely to be around half that of ground growing at best. That is not always a bad thing. Growing in the ground is not fool proof. Many things can still go wrong and when they go wrong in fast growing they can go wrong in a big way. Container growing may be a bit slower but you have much more control and more likelihood of ending up with a better result.

Many US growers love the flatter Anderson flats for developing bonsai, claiming they help develop the flatter root system for bonsai but shallow pots are not without problems. Shallow dries out much quicker and any dry will reduce growth. Nutrients leach out quicker and any reduction in nutrient also affects growth rates.
I prefer to use good root pruning techniques to develop flat root system. A good nebari can still be developed in a deeper pot and they don't tend to dry out quite as quick and also retain nutrient and temperature better than flatter containers IMHO.

There's not much to indicate current pot size but I guess around 20 cm 10" pot?
You could double the size of the pot without causing any problems but I would not do that now. The tree has leaves on so we assume you are somewhere in northern hemisphere. Even if you do up pot now you are unlikely to get much growth between now and end of this growing season. By the look of the tree, pot and soil there's still lots of space for growth in the current pot for this year.
I would recommend a thorough repot and root prune before next spring. Commercially grown trees are notorious for having tangled and misshapen roots. Good nebari is very high on JM list of positive features and it will be much easier to address any problems now, before the trunk and roots are thicker. After addressing the roots it can be potted into a larger container or in the ground.

You will note that I have referred to location being important when giving and receiving advice. You may have noticed that others have a location in their personal profile which helps other members give advice based on your climate and conditions.

Realistically you should be allowing at least 5 years and more like 10-15 years to develop a good bonsai from a tree at this stage.

Thank you for all of the very useful information, as well as reminding me to check my location info, as it seems I forgot to save it.

Yes I am in the northern hemisphere, and I didn't plan to repot it until March. I was thinking about growing it in a large plastic basin and cutting holes in it much like described in the YT video linked below. Until then I planned to just nurse it to full vigor. Or should I repot some time beforehand?

I'm also unsure about what type of soil I should be buying, and how high of a priority it is to change it. Afaik changing the soil is basically repotting so I had planned to do it at the same time. Let me know if anyone has any thoughts and thanks for the help.

 

[Shibui]

Until then I planned to just nurse it to full vigor. Or should I repot some time beforehand?

Can't properly tell from a photo but the soil looks relatively new and fresh so my feeling is the tree has not been in that pot very long, will not yet be root bound and so should have plenty of room to grow until dormancy. Proper repotting now is not advised. Slip potting into a larger container now will not get you much, if any increase in growth and may cause more problems so just concentrate on giving the tree the best care you can in the container it is in.

Changing the soil is the appropriate time to be checking and working on the existing roots. Spring, before the leaves come is an appropriate time to do that.
Soil type is less critical while growing trunks on in larger containers. You should be able to use any good quality potting soil for that stage but if you want to swap to a recommended bonsai potting soil at the first repot that is OK too. Provided you can match watering, fertiliser and care to suit the soil your tree will grow the same in either soil type.

 

[Dabbler]

Blood good are pretty bad at bonsai - I've had one for a five or so years in training and no matter what I did - it would randomly shoot out crazy long internodes

 

[EnderStar101]

Blood good are pretty bad at bonsai - I've had one for a five or so years in training and no matter what I did - it would randomly shoot out crazy long internodes

The plan was to just make it quite large to compensate, like 2" of trunk thickness or more. It'll take a long time but it'll get there eventually, right?

How big was your tree? Do you still have pictures? Might be something I can learn there at least lol

 

[dbonsaiw]

The plan was to just make it quite large to compensate, like 2"

IMO, 2" isn't all that big. In fact, gives you like a 12" tree which is kind of average. I have a few BGs in development that will need to grow for some time and my plan was basically to forget about them for a few years until they are considerably larger in thickness and then develop a bonsai in the 2 foot range and closer to 4" in thickness.

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

Blood good are pretty bad at bonsai - I've had one for a five or so years in training and no matter what I did - it would randomly shoot out crazy long internodes

I have one as well. I agree it would not be a special thing. Internode length and leaf size are big and the colour is a but to dark for my liking.

This summer I tried a full defoliation and that worked out quit well.
Internodes and leaves reduced to make it look better! Had some fresh leaf colour again and it is having some nice green colours in it.

I decided to keep it

 

[EnderStar101]

I have one as well. I agree it would not be a special thing. Internode length and leaf size are big and the colour is a but to dark for my liking.

This summer I tried a full defoliation and that worked out quit well.
Internodes and leaves reduced to make it look better! Had some fresh leaf colour again and it is having some nice green colours in it.

I decided to keep it

Nice! Do you have any pictures? Would love to see some inspiration right about now

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

Nice! Do you have any pictures? Would love to see some inspiration right about now

Of course
It are the ones I made at least from when I put it in a pot untill now. About two years

 

[EnderStar101]

IMO, 2" isn't all that big. In fact, gives you like a 12" tree which is kind of average. I have a few BGs in development that will need to grow for some time and my plan was basically to forget about them for a few years until they are considerably larger in thickness and then develop a bonsai in the 2 foot range and closer to 4" in thickness.

Honestly the number isn't super set in stone, I'm just willing to wait until the trunk gets as thick as it needs to make it look nice. 2" was a generous guestimation if anything, and ur probably not wrong in that it needs to be thicker than that even.

How are yours doing? How thick are the trunks right now, how thick were they when you planted them, and how much thicker have they gotten?

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

Foto’s are a bit mixed up I believe sorry for that. Three last are at least the last at least at last

Anyway defolitation worked and made it better to me

 

[EnderStar101]

Foto’s are a bit mixed up I believe sorry for that. Three last are at least the last at least at last

Anyway defolitation worked and made it better to me

You did full defoliation or partial defoliation? It responded well? What time of year did you do it?

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

You did full defoliation or partial defoliation? It responded well? What time of year did you do it?

A full defoliation beginning of June somewhere I believe.

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

About 3-4 weeks to come in leaf again.
Beware it was vigorous when I did that

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

Excuse the pot. Thought red and green would work out well together but in this case they did not imo