Bald Cypress seed experiences?!

Discussion in 'Other Conifers' started by GGB, Apr 19, 2017.

?

Can a Yankee germinate a bald cypress tree?

  1. Yes

    71.4%
  2. No

    14.3%
  3. Only if he owns a rebel flag

    14.3%
  1. GGB

    GGB Chumono

    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    Bethlehem, PA
    Hey guys, I am really interested in collecting "experiences" you've had germinating bald cypress. I guess second hand successes are okay too, don't want to narrow it down too hard.
    There's one tree near me that has dropped cones and I collected all I could. Very few, maybe 3 of them have sunken in water (that sinking seed viability thing apply to taxodium?). I have treated some with different strengths of peroxide, and rubbing alcohol, sanded the seed coat on some and of course just threw a bunch in water untreated as a control. I would have liked to pretreat with an alkaline solution but didn't have anything at my disposale at the time.
    My question ultimately is .. Are my seeds duds because they are floating?
    And if cypress seeds normally float for days how do I get them to sink?
    Do they need to sink? Usually I'm good with the whole germination thing but this species has me stuck and it happens to be the species I want to "specialize" in. Thanks in advance for links, tips and judgements
     
    zelk likes this.
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  3. sorce

    sorce Nonsense Rascal

    Messages:
    16,303
    Location:
    Berwyn, Il
    I heard tell that BC seeds aren't viable further north than Southern Illinois.

    I believe it enough to try cuttings over seeds.

    Sorce
     
    GGB likes this.
  4. GrimLore

    GrimLore Imperial Masterpiece

    Messages:
    7,476
    Location:
    South East PA USDA Zone 6b
    After reading this article by SF Gate a long time ago I decided not to try - http://homeguides.sfgate.com/propagate-bald-cypress-68246.html . One to two foot seedlings are quite inexpensive and grow easily to four foot in one season were we live. It seems the process to start with seed takes sooooooooooooooooooo long is counterproductive, at least to me :oops: And yes, I am one of two people on the site that leave them grow in pots in standing water all year :rolleyes:

    Grimmy
     
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  5. Mellow Mullet

    Mellow Mullet Masterpiece


    I don't know if the good ones are supposed to float or sink, never tried it, but I suspect that they would float because they don't weigh much and have a slight coating of resin on them. I have germinated them and my dad does also. I picked up some cones recently (last fall) and gave them to my dad, he broke out the seeds, threw them in a pot, keep them damp and this spring they have sprouted.

    I don't think all of the pretreating is necessary, just break the cone apart, plant the seeds, keep them damp.
     
    zelk, GGB and GrimLore like this.
  6. Rusty Davis

    Rusty Davis Shohin

    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Pekin IL
    Last February I collected a Pepsi can full of BC seeds off of this tree in Spring lake " middle of IL" IMG_20160228_084036_229.jpg I put the seeds in a container of water for a month. After that I put half in a concrete tub with potting soil and the other half in a container with peat. All the ones in the potting soil grew straight as an arrow but the ones in the peat grew more twisted. The peat shifted alot when I watered or the tub flooded from rain. I had a higher survival in the potting soil. I will try to get some pics of them when I get home
     
  7. Anthony

    Anthony Masterpiece

    Messages:
    3,483
    Location:
    West Indies [ Caribbean ]
    English guy down here was able to get cuttings of the swamp cypress from the Lafayette, tree day
    to grow.
    So it might be even easier for you guys.
    The tree from 1980 is still alive but untrained [ maybe this year ] and an airlayer is planned.

    Needs no refrigeration, just goes self dormant and comes back out around March.

    Anything special for an airlayer ? Anyone ?
    Thanks in advance.
    Good Day
    Anthony
     
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  8. GGB

    GGB Chumono

    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    Bethlehem, PA
    Thanks everyone for the input and article. Thank you especialy @Rusty Davis , I was about ready to quit but I'll follow your lead with the seeds I've collected. I have bought seedlings offline, love how fast they grow, but after shipping and everything I'd be paying a healthy chunk for a good amount of trees. And @Anthony will agree that free is king. The tree I've been collecting from is way to big for cuttings but I will take cuttings from the few trees I already have but not until next year or later. I'd love it if we could debunk a myth or two. Especially the sterile North issue, hurts my arbor pride a little
     
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  9. Rusty Davis

    Rusty Davis Shohin

    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Pekin IL
    Not the best pics but IMG_20170420_172722994.jpg IMG_20170420_172957258.jpg those are the ones in potting soil IMG_20170420_172754473.jpg IMG_20170420_172824264.jpg IMG_20170420_172948506_HDR.jpg those are the ones that I grew in peat. Most of the really twisted ones I pulled out all ready. Now I have a dixie cup forest swamp lol. I don't think it would be to much to send some out it the mail if someone wants some to play with. I can't exactly afford to send one to everyone though
     
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  10. toscgwsndiqz

    toscgwsndiqz Seedling

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Savannah
    I break apart the cones, Put the seeds in a bucket of water (they float)leave it outside under a large tree. In spring as they germinate I plant each in a pot or many in a flat
    Bald Cypress Seedling Forest (2).jpg seed bucket.jpg
     
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  11. Saizan

    Saizan Yamadori

    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Alicante, SE Spain
    Some years ago I bought some BC seeds, stratified 3 months and put in some recycled substrate. 80% of germination, very easy to do...
    P1150082.jpg
     
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  12. zelk

    zelk Shohin

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    San DIego
    Where have people purchased BC seeds and had good results? I'm looking to buy about 100 seeds. I know there is a thread on seeds here but I'm still searching for it.
     
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  13. Rusty Davis

    Rusty Davis Shohin

    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Pekin IL
    I would order from scheffields seeds. Had great luck with everything from them. But they are also the only ones I've ordered from
     
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  14. zelk

    zelk Shohin

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    San DIego
    That's a reputable sounding company from what I've gathered reading here. If it works out better than rareexoticseeds.Com I'll be happy.
     
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  15. bonsaidave

    bonsaidave Mame

    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Cuttings do pretty well you should not count that option out. I have several little bald cypress from my first attempt at cuttings.
     
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  16. Rusty Davis

    Rusty Davis Shohin

    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Pekin IL
    I've never tried a cutting, maybe I'll give that a go next year
     
    zelk likes this.
  17. zelk

    zelk Shohin

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    San DIego
    http://hos.ufl.edu/sites/default/files/faculty/gdliu/CypressSeedGermination.pdf

    I'm not sure if anyone has posted this here before but I found this research paper with google. It describes methods to enhance germination success with bald cypress. I found it interesting and relevant so I may attempt applying the most beneficial treatment described on half of whatever seeds I order. I notice sheffields recommends soaking bald cypress seeds in ethyl alcohol while this paper disputes any benefit in doing so. it actually fairs quite poorly in comparison to distilled water 24hr soak and even a mild HCl solution. The study experimentally determined a 5% solution of Sodium Hydroxide for 5 mins then a distilled water 24hr soak as the best of the treatements attempted in the experiment. Then it proposes that this works by neutralizing the seed coat. In that case I see ethyl alcohol making little sense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  18. Rusty Davis

    Rusty Davis Shohin

    Messages:
    340
    Location:
    Pekin IL
    I'll give that a read. After a month of sitting in water some of my seeds where still sticky as hell.
     
  19. zelk

    zelk Shohin

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    San DIego
    I forgot to mention the seed coat itself is acidic and that's why a base like sodium hydroxide could work. The seed coat is to extend viability or do they have a short shelf life? I wonder how this plays into the seed protecting itself. What would stimulate the seed coat to break down in nature? Maybe slight quantities of salt water flooding in from the sea during some very active storm seasons? This could in some way tell the seed that there will be lots of moisture for it to succeed.
     
  20. GGB

    GGB Chumono

    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    Bethlehem, PA
    @zelk I second sheffield's. That's where I got all my seeds in the past. I have actually read that article and used the methods (all of them) on about 75/80 seeds I collected. No luck at all. Some sunk after about 5 days, maybe 4 or 5. And a fewe more sunk in the following week. Nothing sprouted, I don't blame the germination technique. I was told those seeds would be sterile and I guess that was true. I'm keeping a "mother" tree now for cuttings but have heard after the first 3 years success rates with cutting go downhill in this species.
     
  21. rockm

    rockm Imperial Masterpiece

    Messages:
    6,687
    Location:
    Fairfax Va.
    Sure they are. If you want to screw around with seeds for this species (and I have no idea why anyone wants to do that), you can grow them beyond Southern Illinois.
    I have no idea WHY you'd want to do that, other than watching them grow is slightly more entertaining than watching paint dry (but not much more).

    BC seedlings are dirt cheap if you look around.
    http://forestry.ky.gov/statenurseriesandtreeseedlings/Documents/Seedling Order Form.pdf

    Guy Guidry also sells more developed seedlings on ebay every once and a while. I've got a 1" diameter trunk with a 3" basal flare in a bundle from him a while back.
     
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