Bald cypress from Florida up north

[WNC Bonsai]

I recently acquired a bald cypress pre-bonsai from a fellow near St. Petersburg, FL. It arrived bareroot in a USPS triangle tube and it had already begun to leaf out. I pulled off some of the new leaves and branches that were lower on the truck but left those on the upper half, cut the roost back by about 1/2, and potted it up in an organic mix, then soaked it a few hours to fully wet the mix. Surprisingly the little
leaves have held on now for a week and actually perked up after being planted and watered. I kept in an unheated garage at about 45-50 F then for the last few days during our January thaw moved it outside where the temps are about the same. So far it looks healthy. I had really expected the new leaves to drop off as a result of this extreme shock.

My questions are first, with it leafing out this early should I defoliate it and try to keep it cold enough to not bud out again or try and nurse it through the next few months of warm and cold cycles we have here in the mountains of North Carolina? I have a north facing porch I can keep it on so it can get some light but not really intense, and a tray can help with the humidity.

Second question is about the future. Because BC is supposed to be hardy in zones 4-9 I assume it will have no problems here in zone 7. However, do trees native to a climate like St Petersburg have the same level of hardiness as say one from further north. I have read that Chinese elms can vary greatly in their hardiness depending on whether they are genetically derived from the southern part of their range as opposed to the northern end. Might this be true of bald cypress too? Have any of you guys up north had experience with trees from central Florida?

 

[Dav4]

I think once a tree breaks dormancy and starts to grow, defoliating it won't put it back into dormancy, but will only weaken it. I'd say you need to give this one as much direct sunlight as possible going forward without letting it freeze again... welcome to the bonsai two step!

As far as the question of cold hardiness and provenance, they are definitely related. Bald cypresses collected from Louisiana or NC or SC are likely to be more cold hardy then a tree from mid to south FL.

 

[GrimLore]

I think once a tree breaks dormancy and starts to grow, defoliating it won't put it back into dormancy, but will only weaken it. I'd say you need to give this one as much direct sunlight as possible going forward without letting it freeze again... welcome to the bonsai two step!

Like Dave said putting emphasis on SUN - Full East West if possible.

If you defoliate it now don't expect it to bud again with any vigor and it may never... not good.

Grimmy

 

[Giga]

pics?

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Pics will come as soon as I figure that out. Still looking for where to go to edit my profile and add location info etc.

 

[shimbrypaku]

I would agree with @Dav4, I have native NC cypress and they are still dormant. They stay out side all year in water, even when it's frozen. Doesn't seem to affect them at all.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Here is a photo. The tree leaves arrived with the orange tint, but are greener than they appear in the photo.

 

[shimbrypaku]

Just going out on a limb here (no pun intended) are you sure is not a pond cypress?

 

[shimbrypaku]

Again from the photo it looks like the tree never went fully dormant.

 

[rockm]

I recently acquired a bald cypress pre-bonsai from a fellow near St. Petersburg, FL. It arrived bareroot in a USPS triangle tube and it had already begun to leaf out. I pulled off some of the new leaves and branches that were lower on the truck but left those on the upper half, cut the roost back by about 1/2, and potted it up in an organic mix, then soaked it a few hours to fully wet the mix. Surprisingly the little
leaves have held on now for a week and actually perked up after being planted and watered. I kept in an unheated garage at about 45-50 F then for the last few days during our January thaw moved it outside where the temps are about the same. So far it looks healthy. I had really expected the new leaves to drop off as a result of this extreme shock.

My questions are first, with it leafing out this early should I defoliate it and try to keep it cold enough to not bud out again or try and nurse it through the next few months of warm and cold cycles we have here in the mountains of North Carolina? I have a north facing porch I can keep it on so it can get some light but not really intense, and a tray can help with the humidity.

Second question is about the future. Because BC is supposed to be hardy in zones 4-9 I assume it will have no problems here in zone 7. However, do trees native to a climate like St Petersburg have the same level of hardiness as say one from further north. I have read that Chinese elms can vary greatly in their hardiness depending on whether they are genetically derived from the southern part of their range as opposed to the northern end. Might this be true of bald cypress too? Have any of you guys up north had experience with trees from central Florida?

It has broken dormancy. It has already leafed out. You can't stop it. Cutting those leaves off won't make it return to dormant state. Once a deciduous tree begins pushing new leaves after awakening from dormancy, it loses 95 percent of its ability to withstand frosts and freezes. It has gone "all in" on new growth at the expense of winter hardiness.

The only thing you can do now is make sure the tree doesn't get hit with frost or freezes. That means either keeping it inside in a bright location (it will leaf out fully and require a lot of light) or keep it outside when temps are above 35 or so.

I the tree gets hit with a frost now, it will be damaged, probably badly. If the soil and roots freeze now, the tree will die, or large portions of its trunk will die.

FWIW, I have had both Louisiana collected BC and Florida collected BC overwinter side by side under mulch in my backyard. Over a few years, the Florida tree (which have awl-like foliage, as well as feather like foliage) died off. Louisiana collected BC are more winter hardy.

Good luck.

 

[Zach Smith]

What Mark said. Do not defoliate. Protect the root zone from freezing. BC recover from collecting by first producing foliage and then roots. It's easy to kill off those new roots. They won't harden off for a good while. The new foliage can stand a light freeze, BTW.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

You folks have confirmed my suspicions especially what Mark said about his FL tree dieing off after a few years. I too wondered whether those leaves were left overs from last fall or new stuff. Looking at the climate data for St Pete it seems it only rarely goes below 50 down there so it would not surprise me if they don’t go completely dormant in the winter. Although I have a PhD in biology, tree dormancy was not among the subjects I studied. BTW Mark I lived in Manassas from 1977-2009 and worked in Reston.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Here is a photo. The tree leaves arrived with the orange tint, but are greener than they appear in the photo.

To me...it looks like a tree heading into dormancy...not waking from dormancy, to wake from dormancy one would see much more vibrant foliage. I have a Bald Cypress...when it wakes...it gets bright green buds. If you removed the foliage...I don't believe you removed any new growth...but foliage it's not lost as of yet.

I would offer a bit of protection since it was from down south in Florida. But the cold temps...might allow it to go more dormant.

 

[Dav4]

To me...it looks like a tree heading into dormancy...not waking from dormancy, to wake from dormancy one would see much more vibrant foliage. I have a Bald Cypress...when it wakes...it gets bright green buds. If you removed the foliage...I don't believe you removed any new growth...but foliage it's not lost as of yet.

I would offer a bit of protection since it was from down south in Florida. But the cold temps...might allow it to go more dormant.

The sun has been moving back towards the northern hemisphere for over 6 weeks and day length is increasing. If this tree hasn't gone dormant yet, it isn't going to... unless it freezes solid. That'll be a dormancy it never comes out of. No, this one needs to grow now.

 

[shimbrypaku]

Some Florida cypress never exhibit the full dormant effect, it all depends on the weather in Florida. I would keep it from fully freezing (when the temp fallows below 32 bring it in, leave it out side all other times) it may be a tough thing to accomplish in Asheville NC.
I have seen this first hand, I lived in FL for 35 years and stomped the swamps and palmetto prairies in the hunt for deer and bonsai.

But this is just my opinion.

 

[shimbrypaku]

I'm attempting to save this NC cypress.

 

[Cadillactaste]

The sun has been moving back towards the northern hemisphere for over 6 weeks and day length is increasing. If this tree hasn't gone dormant yet, it isn't going to... unless it freezes solid. That'll be a dormancy it never comes out of. No, this one needs to grow now.

I see...but as one poster said...do Florida BC fully hybernate? Wigerts had one that was fully out of leaf. Curious if defoliated when it turned orangish...or did it on its own.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

OK, I just got a response from the grower in St Pete who said this foliage is from last year. Most of these plants there lose their leaves but those in pots can retain them in the winter. He says no worry, they will drop off and new foliage will grow in the spring. So I think that answers a lot of our questions about this bald cypress. However it does upset my plans for this tree since it will need to be grown as a single specimen unless I order a couple more from him for a group planting. I wouldn’t want to take a chance on mixnig trees that may not go fully dormant with others from a colder region that can go fully dormant and take a cold WNC winter. My unheated garage isn’t big enough to hold our cars and a growing collection of bonsai that can’t overwinter outside.

 

[shimbrypaku]

Sorry you had to hear it for the grower, I'm going hunting later this month for what ever crosses my trail. If I find cypress that not going to end up in my collection I will let you know.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Sorry you had to hear it for the grower, I'm going hunting later this month for what ever crosses my trail. If I find cypress that not going to end up in my collection I will let you know.

Sounds good, are you anywhere near Asheville? I have been trying to make contacts with anyone who has access to private swampland for collecting purposes but so far the closest is in Savannah.