Are Variegated Plants Frowned Upon?

[Bonsai Nut]

Have you noticed if these elms aren't as vigorous as other green elms.

I have not, however we are talking about elms here. They will air-layer in 30 days, and to take cutting I just snip off a branch and stick it in dirt. The smaller leaved cultivars grow a little more compact, but every bit as vigorously as larger leaved ones, in my opinion.

 

[JoeR]

I have a beautiful variegated ivy that, if it ever trunks up, will make a fantastic Bonsai. But ivy are unconventional in the first place which may be why it works.

@Mellow Mullet sent me tons of variegated serissas and IMO they make great Bonsai as well, although somewhat unconventional too. Definitely goes well with their flowers.

 

[AZbonsai]

This boughie is planted in the ground. It has about a 2 inch wide trunk on it. It went from light pink flowers to vibrant orange flowers back to pink. It is very healthy and grows like a weed. I think I am going to let it go one more summer than put it in a 15 gallon pot.

 

[GailC]

Here's an interesting un-named one... I call this one "aureum" because of the yellow foliage and the yellow margin on the leaves. It has really small dwarf leaves... but every now and then it will throw a branch that has full-sized leaves, which I prune off. I'm certain if I took one of those full-sized ones and planted it as a cutting, the entire tree would have large leaves. This particular cultivar holds the yellow color and leaves all summer... which is why I prefer it to some of the other variegates which fade.

View attachment 178425

This reminds me of a type of variegation in african violets thats called crown variegation due to it showing on the new growth. I don't care for it on violets but it looks nice a tree.
Do you find your vari plants need less sun?
variegated violet

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

This boughie is planted in the ground. It has about a 2 inch wide trunk on it. It went from light pink flowers to vibrant orange flowers back to pink. It is very healthy and grows like a weed. I think I am going to let it go one more summer than put it in a 15 gallon pot.
View attachment 178497
View attachment 178498

I would leave that puppy in the ground until the trunk was over 3 inches in diameter. That would allow you to go for a size larger than Shohin. Yet if you wanted a Shohin, the 3 inch diameter trunk is not too large. I like it, I do like margin variegates.

 

[AZbonsai]

I would leave that puppy in the ground until the trunk was over 3 inches in diameter. That would allow you to go for a size larger than Shohin. Yet if you wanted a Shohin, the 3 inch diameter trunk is not too large. I like it, I do like margin variegates.

May do that...not in a hurry thats for sure this is one of my retirement projects...6 years

 

[BillsBayou]

Personally, I don't like variegated plants as bonsai. It just looks like a landscaping gimmick to me. This is very much my own personal opinion. Like so many things, if you like it, do it.

 

[Timbo]

Hard to be a gimmick when they come from seed as random...had a few of my seeds with variegated leaves...It's pretty cool to find them.
All the JM varieties seems to get a lot of hype...I don't see much diff.

 

[Victorim]

Hard to be a gimmick when they come from seed as random...had a few of my seeds with variegated leaves...It's pretty cool to find them.
All the JM varieties seems to get a lot of hype...I don't see much diff.

Think JM varieties arnt quite part of this bud. And although they arnt 'natural' most have been around a long time and some quite a show of human intervention to beauty. How do you not see much difference between palmatum? hyped about the Kotohimes I got today.. the leaves are finger nail size max

 

[Timbo]

I guess i'm confused...how is JM not part of this thread? They aren't variegated? My point was these are all just random chance at certain 'genes'. All very natural...just rare. Not really talking about which ones work/look better. Unless you want to mess with them in a lab i suppose, seems like it takes all the fun out of it.
I find a lot of JM's to look very similar. Only a handful i find 'unique' But that's a diff topic.

 

[River's Edge]

That's now my favorite tree name by far!
Killer!

The Tree is named after a very respected former lieutenant governor of the province of Alberta in Canada. She was also a pioneer in the Nursery trade and co-founder of Holes Greenhouses. A professional gardener and best selling author of gardening books. Also has a Library and Hospital named after her.

 

[papymandarin]

downsides often mentioned against variegated varieties (all point may not apply to all varieties of course)
1) lack of vigour compared to non variegated counterparts, leading to poor response to bonsai technique
2) visual aspect giving a feeling of sickly plant or just too "unnatural looking"
3) variegation instability: most variegations are caused by viruses and are not "completely stable", it is well known in regular gardening that some branches of these plants often revert to normal (must be removed till the base of the reverted branch) AND that pruned plants reverts more frequently ( i suspect that the viruses may disappear from older parts of the tree leading to normal shoots when the tree is forced to backbud on old wood) which can of course be quite a problem for bonsai maintenance...

 

[ysrgrathe]

downsides often mentioned against variegated varieties (all point may not apply to all varieties of course)
3) variegation instability: most variegations are caused by viruses and are not "completely stable"

Can you provide a reference for this claim? It is surprising to me. My understanding was most variegations are from random genetic changes. According to wiki there ARE some virus-linked variegations, but I don't think this is the norm. My understanding of "reversion" in maples is that some varieties don't express the variegation consistently because when they grow rapidly, are over-fertilized, or get too much (or little) sun the gene activation is different leading to different leaves. A.p. 'Ukigumo' is famously inconsistent but a branch with "normal" green leaves in one year may express variegated leaves the next (and vice versa).

 

[AlainK]

Can you provide a reference for this claim? It is surprising to me. My understanding was most variegations are from random genetic changes. According to wiki there ARE some virus-linked variegations, but I don't think this is the norm.

Whatever.

But one of the issues is that quite often some branches, not all of them, revert to a non-variegated form. It's not a problem for landscape trees because you can cut off the branch (when the tree is reasonably small), otherwise it is usually stronger than the variegated form, and after a couple of years, the whole tree can lose its variegation. There are good examples of that in a neighbouring street planted with high-grafted Acer negundo: they were originally variegated (like A. negundo 'Flamingo'), but most of them have at least half their leaves turned back to green.

For bonsai it's an issue since if you built a balanced tree and have to cut a branch which is necessary to the design, it might mean years of work to be binned.

Anyway, the variegation on the leaves distracts the eye from the shape of the leaf pads.

Also, on maples for instance, very often variegated leaves are distorted, not very consistant with an overall shape.

For instance, pics from a healthy 'Gwen's Rose Delight' (aka 'Shirazz') at different stages throughout the season. Very nice patio/landscape tree, no good for bonsai IMO:

April:



May:



September:

 

[papymandarin]

well references, just google plant variegation + virus, it is a well-known phenomenom (the most famous historically being the netherlands variegated flowered tulips from The Netherlands). And i do agree that not all variegations are caused by viruses (and actually even in the case of viruses you are right, viruses act by disrupting/integrating the normal genetic processes of the plant so whether it's natural mutation or virus action, the genetic expression is changed), however the important point is that reversion happens in most plants whatever the cause of variegation (i should have been more detailed in my former message, now i read it again i see it's confusing in making think variegation is unstable because it's from viruses, while it's just a particular case, i'm also not a native englsih speaker so my message was maybe not written well)

 

[GrimLore]

Neither one keeps the white margin for the entire summer. It starts very bright and noticeable in the spring, and fades over the course of the year. By the end of the summer the leaves are completely green.

My Variegated Serrisa are the same. They display the white when the leaf is new but go full green as they grow. Regardless of being variegated they grow as fast and require more trimming then my most vigorous plants. In our indoor/outdoor variegated Ficus however it appears they retain a lot of the white and grow ok but more slowly.

Grimmy

 

[GrimLore]

Have you noticed if these elms aren't as vigorous as other green elms.

I have not, however we are talking about elms here. They will air-layer in 30 days, and to take cutting I just snip off a branch and stick it in dirt. The smaller leaved cultivars grow a little more compact, but every bit as vigorously as larger leaved ones, in my opinion.

I have one that has the same type of yellowish leaf characteristic sold simply as a Chinese Elm to me bare root and bare leaf we potted on April 19th 2017. It was 18 - 20 inches, a whip. It is now an easy 5 foot tall in less then a full season...

I have not seen larger leaf on it during that time but I suspect if it happens it would be this Summer.

I honestly treated it a few times thinking something was wrong with it and gave up and just decided I did it all correct and the plant is just odd

Grimmy