Any chance on saving this dying juniper cascade?

[NamesakE]

The pictures make the tips look browner than in real life. A lot are closer to a whitish color. This is I believe a blue star juniper and an air layer that I've been working on for a couple years it was fine until a month or so ago.

What the rootstock foliage looks like.

Conditions:
1 full sun for most of the day
2 Michigan, metro Detroit area with high humidity area so there's usually a lot of condensation on the needles and when there's not I've been misting it with a light SuperThrive mix
3 Air layer material mostly pumice surrounding sphagnum moss around the cut with a small amount of organic fertilizer.
4 scratch test of the branches with the white/brown growth tips (yes I know that's generally a very bad thing) shows green underneath so they're still alive but that can mean it's just the early stages of dying from what I know
5 Crap for roots on the air layer but some

Any suggestions?
More sun?
Less sun?
Have a funeral?
I really want to save this thing.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Well... never put fertilizer in an air-layer. The layer doesn't need it / want it, and in the worst case you will simply be burning new roots that are trying to grow. Remember - until you separate the layer, the upper part of the tree is still getting ALL of its water and nutrients from the tree roots. Fertilize and water the tree roots, yes - but not the layer. The layer you only want to keep moist so the new roots don't dry out.

How long have you been trying your layer? At this point, the only thing you can do is protect it from the sun and perhaps mist the foliage to slow down dessication... but you need to take a look at your layer, because if the sapwood is dead, it's game over for the upper part of the tree.

(Unless of course you are Kimura, who was able to take a mostly dead juniper, invert it, and get new roots to pop. In his case, he protected the tree and misted it and treated it like a huge cutting).

 

[NamesakE]

Well... never put fertilizer in an air-layer. The layer doesn't need it / want it, and in the worst case you will simply be burning new roots that are trying to grow. Remember - until you separate the layer, the upper part of the tree is still getting ALL of its water and nutrients from the tree roots. Fertilize and water the tree roots, yes - but not the layer. The layer you only want to keep moist so the new roots don't dry out.

How long have you been trying your layer? At this point, the only thing you can do is protect it from the sun and perhaps mist the foliage to slow down dessication... but you need to take a look at your layer, because if the sapwood is dead, it's game over for the upper part of the tree.

(Unless of course you are Kimura, who was able to take a mostly dead juniper, invert it, and get new roots to pop. In his case, he protected the tree and misted it and treated it like a huge cutting).

It's been a couple years now (this thing has been my problem child) since I've separated the top completely from the root stock and the top had been doing fine until...I checked on the air layer a couple months ago which I had inappropriately contained in open plastic pot which dried out way too fast and noticed the anemic root growth after about two years. I switched to the bag, large grain pumice and fertilizer hoping it would help.
I've been misting it in the evening and morning. I'll move it to full shade and keep misting it I guess.
Any chance you have a link to the technique Kimura used? I wonder if he has a tree-saving service.. : )
I guess I can unwrap some of the twine I used to protect the main branch from the heavy gauge wire and see how the cambium looks. Like I said the main branches still have live cambium but if the whole thing looks like that well....
I'm not sure what to look for or where when you talk about checking the sapwood. The area right about the air layer cut?
This would make a really beautiful cascade of it survives.

The new material i used

The original that wasn't doing much after 2 years. Most if not all of the fibers are sphagnum moss not roots.

 

[August44]

Is that last picture of your "air-layer"? If so, it looks a bit sloppy with nothing going on at all to me. 2 years trying to get an air-layer going?? If I was you, I would ditch the air-layer pronto, try and save what's left, read up on air layering and maybe start over. Sorry, just MO.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It should not take a juniper two years to air-layer. It should be a matter of a few months - perhaps four if you have a slow tree.

I would remove all of the plastic, soil and moss, and see what your air-layer girdle looks like. You need to check the health of the sap wood in your girdle. If it is dead/rotting, the top of the tree is going to die. Otherwise you may want to recut the margins of your girdle, apply rooting hormone (no fertilizer) and repack your air-layer.

 

[NamesakE]

It should not take a juniper two years to air-layer. It should be a matter of a few months - perhaps four if you have a slow tree.

I would remove all of the plastic, soil and moss, and see what your air-layer girdle looks like. You need to check the health of the sap wood in your girdle. If it is dead/rotting, the top of the tree is going to die. Otherwise you may want to recut the margins of your girdle, apply rooting hormone (no fertilizer) and repack your air-layer.

That's what confused me. I removed a huge huge ring from the rootstock so it wouldn't have a chance to bridge back. I figured it was doing fine developing roots since the top looked great for so long but when I checked there was bupkiss. Like, what the hell am I doing wrong? I used an Exacto knife to leave a clean edge, scraped it down carefully to the sapwood ,and applied Clonex gel at the cut site.
Oddly enough I've been told junipers are hard to air layer if at all so it's difficult to know what information to go on but I'm sure you're right. Ok I'll give it a check as soon I can and post pictures.
Btw what should I repack it with?

 

[NamesakE]

It should not take a juniper two years to air-layer. It should be a matter of a few months - perhaps four if you have a slow tree.

I would remove all of the plastic, soil and moss, and see what your air-layer girdle looks like. You need to check the health of the sap wood in your girdle. If it is dead/rotting, the top of the tree is going to die. Otherwise you may want to recut the margins of your girdle, apply rooting hormone (no fertilizer) and repack your air-layer.

Just did a couple small scratch tests on the different portions of main branch including near the cut. Sapwood underneath looks fine but no green cambium. It's dead...
Thanks for the help though.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Just did a couple small scratch tests on the different portions of main branch including near the cut. Sapwood underneath looks fine but no green cambium. It's dead...

You aren't understanding what I am saying. And forget scratch tests - they are meaningless. Never let the words "scratch test" pass your lips again. Never scratch your trees - you will be none the wiser regardless of what you see, and you will only annoy your tree.

First - I'm assuming you read my thread on the Science of Air-Layering? If not, it is worth a read.

Second... the girdle is where you remove your bark and the vascular cambium in order to make your layer. You retain the xylem of the branch/trunk which consists of deadwood (inside) and sapwood (outside). The sapwood is what provides water and nutrients to the upper part of your air-layer while you are hoping the upper margin of your girdle will push roots. If the sapwood is healthy, your upper air-layer section will remain alive indefinitely.

However if the air-layer is not successful, and the sapwood in your girdle gets infected with fungus or some other pathogen, the sapwood can die... and with it your entire air-layer attempt.



Though many people have different opinions, I always use sphagnum moss in my layers. It holds moisture well without being saturated, and it has natural anti-fungal properties. Also, when you separate your layer and pot up the new tree, it will decay in the soil in a year or so...

 

[NamesakE]

Consider those words banished.. This was my first air layer attempt and on retrospect some practice material probably would've been more appropriate but I saw it and well you know how it goes...

 

[rockm]

It's been a couple years now (this thing has been my problem child) since I've separated the top completely from the root stock and the top had been doing fine until...I checked on the air layer a couple months ago which I had inappropriately contained in open plastic pot which dried out way too fast and noticed the anemic root growth after about two years. I switched to the bag, large grain pumice and fertilizer hoping it would help.
I've been misting it in the evening and morning. I'll move it to full shade and keep misting it I guess.
Any chance you have a link to the technique Kimura used? I wonder if he has a tree-saving service.. : )
I guess I can unwrap some of the twine I used to protect the main branch from the heavy gauge wire and see how the cambium looks. Like I said the main branches still have live cambium but if the whole thing looks like that well....
I'm not sure what to look for or where when you talk about checking the sapwood. The area right about the air layer cut?
This would make a really beautiful cascade of it survives.
View attachment 511453
The new material i used
View attachment 511456
The original that wasn't doing much after 2 years. Most if not all of the fibers are sphagnum moss not roots.

Nut was referring to Kimura's technically difficult transformation of a juniper. It's not for the faint hearted and takes some extreme technical know-how.

A Mind Bending Transformation | Bonsai Bark

 

[NamesakE]

You aren't understanding what I am saying. And forget scratch tests - they are meaningless. Never let the words "scratch test" pass your lips again. Never scratch your trees - you will be none the wiser regardless of what you see, and you will only annoy your tree.

First - I'm assuming you read my thread on the Science of Air-Layering? If not, it is worth a read.

Second... the girdle is where you remove your bark and the vascular cambium in order to make your layer. You retain the xylem of the branch/trunk which consists of deadwood (inside) and sapwood (outside). The sapwood is what provides water and nutrients to the upper part of your air-layer while you are hoping the upper margin of your girdle will push roots. If the sapwood is healthy, your upper air-layer section will remain alive indefinitely.

However if the air-layer is not successful, and the sapwood in your girdle gets infected with fungus or some other pathogen, the sapwood can die... and with it your entire air-layer attempt.

View attachment 511523

Though many people have different opinions, I always use sphagnum moss in my layers. It holds moisture well without being saturated, and it has natural anti-fungal properties. Also, when you separate your layer and pot up the new tree, it will decay in the soil in a year

Nut was referring to Kimura's technically difficult transformation of a juniper. It's not for the faint hearted and takes some extreme technical know-how.

A Mind Bending Transformation | Bonsai Bark

Great article thanks!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Nut was referring to Kimura's technically difficult transformation of a juniper. It's not for the faint hearted and takes some extreme technical know-how.

A Mind Bending Transformation | Bonsai Bark

Actually I was referring to a different tree... I cannot dig out my bonsai books at the moment (they are currently in storage) but I believe it is this tree. When Kimura received it, it was a yamadori that was poorly collected, and all the roots had died and there was only a tuft of very weak foliage at the apex. He inverted the tree, and was able to get roots to grow out of foliage mass, and the top of the tree became the new base.

 

[NamesakE]

Actually I was referring to a different tree... I cannot dig out my bonsai books at the moment (they are currently in storage) but I believe it is this tree. When Kimura received it, it was a yamadori that was poorly collected, and all the roots had died and there was only a tuft of very weak foliage at the apex. He inverted the tree, and was able to get roots to grow out of foliage mass, and the top of the tree became the new base.


View attachment 511692

That's pretty wild. Not sure if I have the skill for that yet. The only "successful" technique was a sugar maple air layer I detached about a month ago that I did for a friend who had it growing out of a crack in his driveway near the shed. I use the word successful very loosely as I don't know if it'll actually survive the next couple years and be proofed out.

I used pure sphagnum moss but again the root growth was crappy as hell even after a few months (and it was a youngish maple that was growing very vigorously) so I added that pumice and it made more growth in 3 weeks then it did 3 months.
Maybe I'm just using bad sphagnum moss? The guy from Herons bonsai swears by some stuff from New Zealand.
I'm starting to think I've picked one of the hardest hobbies there is..