Another failed attempt trying to bonsai a nursery stock

[VietHoang3110]

Hey guys, hope you all have a great day. I really don't want to put out another thread about a beginner trying to bonsai some nursery stock and then naively ask why did the plant die but literally it's. A little background I got this nursery stock, which was about one liter pot, a couple of week ago. It's a hybridized camellia Japonica root cutting, about one year old and in a really healthy condition. Surprisingly, in pot there was actually two separate plants so I decided to plant one in the ground and the other trying to put it in a training pot and give it some movement. Other than the main trunk which I gave a drastic bend, nothing is too invasive in my opinion: no bare rooting, no heavy prunning other than just some dried branches. Soil composition is the one used for acid-loving plants, stay out side and only water when needed. But still, the plant just keeps falling. The only mistake that I recall is when I put it in a quite sunny area, now move to a full shade place as you can see in the picture.




Compared to its brother that I planted in the ground, you can see that the leave are withering and young shoot are losing its shiny color and starting to darken.


I really look for your advice, specifically what did I do wrong. It's something that I just can't figure out after successfully... killed three plants trying to bonsai it, going to be four if this one does not make it. Whether it's not the time to do the root work, or it's the styling that kills the plant? Is there anything that I can do right now to help it pass this breaking point? Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Lorax7]

Except for tropical species, right now is the wrong season for repotting trees in the northern hemisphere.

 

[Cajunrider]

Hey guys, hope you all have a great day. I really don't want to put out another thread about a beginner trying to bonsai some nursery stock and then naively ask why did the plant die but literally it's. A little background I got this nursery stock, which was about one liter pot, a couple of week ago. It's a hybridized camellia Japonica root cutting, about one year old and in a really healthy condition. Surprisingly, in pot there was actually two separate plants so I decided to plant one in the ground and the other trying to put it in a training pot and give it some movement. Other than the main trunk which I gave a drastic bend, nothing is too invasive in my opinion: no bare rooting, no heavy prunning other than just some dried branches. Soil composition is the one used for acid-loving plants, stay out side and only water when needed. But still, the plant just keeps falling. The only mistake that I recall is when I put it in a quite sunny area, now move to a full shade place as you can see in the picture.

View attachment 552416
View attachment 552417
View attachment 552418
Compared to its brother that I planted in the ground, you can see that the leave are withering and young shoot are losing its shiny color and starting to darken.
View attachment 552419

I really look for your advice, specifically what did I do wrong. It's something that I just can't figure out after successfully... killed three plants trying to bonsai it, going to be four if this one does not make it. Whether it's not the time to do the root work, or it's the styling that kills the plant? Is there anything that I can do right now to help it pass this breaking point? Thank you in advance for your help.

Camellia need to be in part shade. Put your trees in areas that get about 3-4 hour of filtered or morning sun. Your trees are burning up.

 

[rockm]

Hey guys, hope you all have a great day. I really don't want to put out another thread about a beginner trying to bonsai some nursery stock and then naively ask why did the plant die but literally it's. A little background I got this nursery stock, which was about one liter pot, a couple of week ago. It's a hybridized camellia Japonica root cutting, about one year old and in a really healthy condition. Surprisingly, in pot there was actually two separate plants so I decided to plant one in the ground and the other trying to put it in a training pot and give it some movement. Other than the main trunk which I gave a drastic bend, nothing is too invasive in my opinion: no bare rooting, no heavy prunning other than just some dried branches. Soil composition is the one used for acid-loving plants, stay out side and only water when needed. But still, the plant just keeps falling. The only mistake that I recall is when I put it in a quite sunny area, now move to a full shade place as you can see in the picture.

View attachment 552416
View attachment 552417
View attachment 552418
Compared to its brother that I planted in the ground, you can see that the leave are withering and young shoot are losing its shiny color and starting to darken.
View attachment 552419

I really look for your advice, specifically what did I do wrong. It's something that I just can't figure out after successfully... killed three plants trying to bonsai it, going to be four if this one does not make it. Whether it's not the time to do the root work, or it's the styling that kills the plant? Is there anything that I can do right now to help it pass this breaking point? Thank you in advance for your help.

Not only the intense sun exposure, but the bend you wired into the trunk is drastic and you likely damaged the cambium enough through heavy wiring and bending so it is incapable or so compromised that the cambium is unable to transfer moisture to the portions of tree beyond the bend. You can't induce severe bends like this easily in deciduous species trunks that have woody tissues. While it can be done with smaller saplings, I'm afraid the one you've done this to is too far advanced.

Take it easy. You're roughing the tree up too much. That combined with full sun is a death sentence for what you're working on

 

[VietHoang3110]

Camellia need to be in part shade. Put your trees in areas that get about 3-4 hour of filtered or morning sun. Your trees are burning up.

I only realised it a couple of days ago and immediately put it to a shady area. Then the situation got worsen, leave start to change color, young shoots dry out and die.

Not only the intense sun exposure, but the bend you wired into the trunk is drastic and you likely damaged the cambium enough through heavy wiring and bending so it is incapable or so compromised that the cambium is unable to transfer moisture to the portions of tree beyond the bend. You can't induce severe bends like this easily in deciduous species trunks that have woody tissues. While it can be done with smaller saplings, I'm afraid the one you've done this to is too far advanced.

Take it easy. You're roughing the tree up too much. That combined with full sun is a death sentence for what you're working on

The reason that I apply the bend at this point is that I'm afraid it's no longer possible after one more year. Camellia's wood once lignified is extremely brittle, it snaps easily. For this variery I can't get any material that's younger than this. Now that I know it's still too old for such bend.

Is there any chance that this little plant can make it and recover from this stress? What can and should I do to save it? Should I remove the wire?

 

[leatherback]

The reason that I apply the bend at this point is that I'm afraid it's no longer possible after one more year. Camellia's wood once lignified is extremely brittle, it snaps easily. For this variery I can't get any material that's younger than this. Now that I know it's still too old for such bend.

Still.. slow down. A dead tree is no tree at all.
Heavy bending is something that you do with proper preparation, and for most non-coniferous, heavy bending is avoided on older branches. One would prune back and bend the young sprout that emerges instead.

Naturally, the tree need not die. Just give it proper care and see what parts die.

 

[RODERLO]

I get an overall vibe of rushing and haste. Like @leatherback said: take it easy.

In this instance you’d be better off not doing everything at once. You may bent it, but not repot it as well. Do that in next time in early spring.

 

[rockm]

I only realised it a couple of days ago and immediately put it to a shady area. Then the situation got worsen, leave start to change color, young shoots dry out and die.

The reason that I apply the bend at this point is that I'm afraid it's no longer possible after one more year. Camellia's wood once lignified is extremely brittle, it snaps easily. For this variery I can't get any material that's younger than this. Now that I know it's still too old for such bend.

Is there any chance that this little plant can make it and recover from this stress? What can and should I do to save it? Should I remove the wire?

Guess such drastic procedures at not possible now, much less a year from now....Movement in hardwood trees' trunks is NOT induced by wire for the most part. That's particularly true with Camellia for the very reason you're discovering. They're "cut down" from larger trees. Your tree may survive what you've done to it, but only behind the break--if the roots haven't been cooked. Keep your fingers crossed. SLOW DOWN.

This is one of my friend's camelias created from a twenty five foot garden tree. Apex has been regrown completely

 

[VietHoang3110]

Still.. slow down. A dead tree is no tree at all.
Heavy bending is something that you do with proper preparation, and for most non-coniferous, heavy bending is avoided on older branches. One would prune back and bend the young sprout that emerges instead.

Naturally, the tree need not die. Just give it proper care and see what parts die.

I get an overall vibe of rushing and haste. Like @leatherback said: take it easy.

In this instance you’d be better off not doing everything at once. You may bent it, but not repot it as well. Do that in next time in early spring.

Guess such drastic procedures at not possible now, much less a year from now....Movement in hardwood trees' trunks is NOT induced by wire for the most part. That's particularly true with Camellia for the very reason you're discovering. They're "cut down" from larger trees. Your tree may survive what you've done to it, but only behind the break--if the roots haven't been cooked. Keep your fingers crossed. SLOW DOWN.

This is one of my friend's camelias created from a twenty five foot garden tree. Apex has been regrown completelyView attachment 552492

Thanks guys I left the tree completely untouched after bending the main trunked (wires are not fully applied as you can see). And then moved it to a shady area only after realised my mistake. Only hope that it would recover from the immense stress of styling and reporting.

To be honest, the main inspiration of this project comes from a demonstration of Terry Erasmus where he converted some raw Camellia materials into literati style bonsais. The plants got bare rooting, lots of bending on the trunk as well as drastic foliage reduction. But still, all of them survive unlike mine. Not so sure what I did wrong, or the weather difference since he lives in South Africa.

 

[Paradox]

Thanks guys I left the tree completely untouched after bending the main trunked (wires are not fully applied as you can see). And then moved it to a shady area only after realised my mistake. Only hope that it would recover from the immense stress of styling and reporting.

To be honest, the main inspiration of this project comes from a demonstration of Terry Erasmus where he converted some raw Camellia materials into literati style bonsais. The plants got bare rooting, lots of bending on the trunk as well as drastic foliage reduction. But still, all of them survive unlike mine. Not so sure what I did wrong, or the weather difference since he lives in South Africa.

Whenever you see someone doing work on bonsai or any plant, you always have to keep in mind where that person is located and what time of year the work is being done.
In bonsai there is a best time for just about everything. Ignoring or not knowing those details can and will result in dead trees.

 

[Shibui]

The plants got bare rooting, lots of bending on the trunk as well as drastic foliage reduction. But still, all of them survive unlike mine. Not so sure what I did wrong, or the weather difference since he lives in South Africa.

Possibly time of year.
Spring is when trees are growing fast and the bark is not stuck tight to the wood. Bending now can damage the bark and circulation. This is well known in junipers so we avoid bending in spring. Late summer and autumn are much safer for bending. Check the time of year the inspiration trees were worked. Remember SA is southern hemisphere so seasons are opposite yours.
Bare root is also safer in late summer, autumn and winter though camellia are pretty resilient and I've seen them bare rooted all times of the year in mild climates like SA and here.

 

[Cajunrider]

Thanks guys I left the tree completely untouched after bending the main trunked (wires are not fully applied as you can see). And then moved it to a shady area only after realised my mistake. Only hope that it would recover from the immense stress of styling and reporting.

To be honest, the main inspiration of this project comes from a demonstration of Terry Erasmus where he converted some raw Camellia materials into literati style bonsais. The plants got bare rooting, lots of bending on the trunk as well as drastic foliage reduction. But still, all of them survive unlike mine. Not so sure what I did wrong, or the weather difference since he lives in South Africa.

One key thing I have learned in my bonsai journey is that my capability to push my bonsai is directly proportional to my aftercare skills. Take some time to learn to take care of the trees. Once you know how to keep them vigorous, you then have a strong sense of how far you can bend, chop, prune roots etc.

 

[VietHoang3110]

Guys, I just want to give you a quick update about the situation. It looks like the plant does not make it. Leave are dry and crispy to the touch, those branches that used to be so flexible now become very brittle and look dried out as well. I water it quite some time ago but it seems like the tree does not used any water. Should I release it from the torment, cleaning up everything or should I wait further? Right now I see no hope left

 

[Shibui]

I do not give up until a full growing season has passed. I've seen many cases where the leaves were brown or completely gone then suddenly new buds emerge. Dry leaves is one way a tree can conserve food and water while it gets new rots started or until more water is available. Meanwhile resources are diverted into new roots.

Your trees may already be dead but they also may just be trying to recover. Continue care for at least a month and longer if you can cope with looking after dead looking sticks. Check, whenever you think of it, for tiny green buds emerging from the leaf axils.
Good luck.

 

[VietHoang3110]

I do not give up until a full growing season has passed. I've seen many cases where the leaves were brown or completely gone then suddenly new buds emerge. Dry leaves is one way a tree can conserve food and water while it gets new rots started or until more water is available. Meanwhile resources are diverted into new roots.

Your trees may already be dead but they also may just be trying to recover. Continue care for at least a month and longer if you can cope with looking after dead looking sticks. Check, whenever you think of it, for tiny green buds emerging from the leaf axils.
Good luck.

Thank you for the recommendation . Of course I can still waiting but I do not hold much hope left. All the buds that I can see are dead and darken along side the crispy leave

 

[Cajunrider]

Thank you for the recommendation . Of course I can still waiting but I do not hold much hope left. All the buds that I can see are dead and darken along side the crispy leave

It's part of our bonsai journey. I have killed my fair share of trees in trying to make bonsai out of them.
Try again