Ancient Elm

[sorce]

No work yet, but by starting this thread I should better remember to take photos at repotting!

It only looks ancient, and was pretty convincing till I let that low left branch Get outta hand! Cascading 3ft!

This is in a deli ham tray of 3 elms. Set to be separated this spring. You can almost make out the one giant root that managed to flare this base. Being jammed in a corner, Its likely going to be ground layered.

About 3in tall is where I want to keep this.



Till repotting!

Sorce

 

[Tieball]

In a few years this is what can happen. I just let this grow and keep cutting back. The base is about 3" diameter now. The branches get quite gnarly. My objective is keeping this about 24" or less. Right now, still dormant, it's a grand mess of a bush.

 

[M. Frary]

No work yet, but by starting this thread I should better remember to take photos at repotting!

It only looks ancient, and was pretty convincing till I let that low left branch Get outta hand! Cascading 3ft!

This is in a deli ham tray of 3 elms. Set to be separated this spring. You can almost make out the one giant root that managed to flare this base. Being jammed in a corner, Its likely going to be ground layered.

About 3in tall is where I want to keep this.

View attachment 69220

Till repotting!

Sorce

It looks a lot bigger than 3 inches tall! Pictures are so decieving. And it is going to be one cool little tree. Nice.

 

[sorce]

Thanks.

I repotted this thing, and tossed the other 2 That were planted with it!

I didn't get any pictures, really because the roots are pretty one sided, but I have a plan that should be wicked.

Leafy updates to come.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

This is the cascading one.

I got this bud right there at the thin waist that needs to grow. I chopped the top a week ago. It wasn't growing too strong. And had a bad wound wasn't healing making reverse taper.

I cut it back to a fork today. Took the strong lead out so maybe it will bud down.


The plan is a riverbank theme. I wild one. Cuz the roots are perfect for it. Odd for sure. We'll see.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

This is rapidly becoming an effort in trunk building.



See we shall.
What say you?

Sorce

 

[sorce]

F 2.

I need access for a ground layer so I used that Dewalt pull saw.


And got a little heavy handed with the exacto again!


Oh....you want see dem roots?




Hopefully I'll get some buds lower too...start fixing this trunk.

Maybe start that GL next year.

Sorce

 

[Tieball]

Some very nice radical moves....prunes....cuts....and all. I am fascinated by where you are going with this tree. Please keep posting.

 

[Smoke]

It's been four years since this thread started. This should really be looking like something now. Any update?

 

[sorce]

It's been four years since this thread started. This should really be looking like something now. Any update?

Died after that Spring repot 2016.

That was the year I swore No More early Spring repots.
Been good for the Conifer game...

However, my D trees haven't been healthy enough to attempt a repot...or have already died...so I haven't been able to find a fix.

I been thinking OK....its the DE and the Colanders.....till I get these 2 Ulmus from Frary ....in Colanders and DE....banging AF!

Here's the...."Smoke was right" part.

The only thing we do differently....he cuts his back a lot....hmmmm...

And on my time capsule elm...
Last year early...."hardening off argument" early....I cut it back hard.
Iy stalled and I was like..."effing Smoke!"..
But then it came back right happier.

It and my Ulmus Favoritus are the only my elms I have left...and one in the ground...

These both need rather urgent attention to the rootzone.
I think I'll full on repot either late spring...or to the sound of leftover fireworks. 4th of July not NYears.

Sorce

 

[coh]

Died after that Spring repot 2016.

That was the year I swore No More early Spring repots.
Been good for the Conifer game...

However, my D trees haven't been healthy enough to attempt a repot...or have already died...so I haven't been able to find a fix.

I repot all my deciduous trees in spring, during the period when buds are swelling through to when they are just starting to pop. Maples (trident and Japanese), hornbeams,
sweetgum, elms, zelkova, others I'm not even listing. Have only lost one tree after repotting - a Japanese maple I had acquired the previous fall that may well have been
infected before I got it. I also almost lost a larch that I moved into the sun too soon after repotting.

You are doing something wrong if your deciduous trees aren't strong enough to survive a spring repotting. Figure out what it is!

 

[sorce]

I repot all my deciduous trees in spring, during the period when buds are swelling through to when they are just starting to pop. Maples (trident and Japanese), hornbeams,
sweetgum, elms, zelkova, others I'm not even listing. Have only lost one tree after repotting - a Japanese maple I had acquired the previous fall that may well have been
infected before I got it. I also almost lost a larch that I moved into the sun too soon after repotting.

You are doing something wrong if your deciduous trees aren't strong enough to survive a spring repotting. Figure out what it is!

This is such a difficult subject to tackle via internet.
Sucks because I am so eager to really figure this out, but how to explain.....

I know for a fact that winter alone has never killed any of my trees.
I also know that spring repotting alone has never killed any of my trees.

I know that spring repotting after a winter kills my trees.

That's where I get stuck, since Spring comes after winter, I can't avoid winter, and I can't NEVER repot, so I'm exploring Summer repot, as my "Answer" or "solution". Since repotting directly after winter is the problem.

You know how you can never have enough "controls" for experiments cuz all your real data comes from there....blah blah. ....

Well all my "controls"...which is just everything else I have observed to be true and repeated/repeatable "my garden" info,
Says summer repotting is an easy/more possible fix than attempting to "play God" and stop winter.

Whereas being determined to repot in spring means going against so many things that are true in my Garden...making my life way more difficult, just to say I repot in spring like everyone else.

It just happens to be that I haven't had the 2 and 2 to make a 4 yet, for one reason or another since 2016. 2017 was the year I was still too exposed, so in February, things woke up and ended up dying so I played it safer with what lived.

You really have to live in this "fuckzone" to understand it....and I Don't mean Leo's farther North, or THG's a bit South....
Or just west beyond the "hand of the lake effect"....

My winter will have picked up and moved or otherwise destroyed that one fellers moldy hotbox before it even got moldy......this year.

Since winter started in October this year and only lasted till just before xmas ish....It's been Rather spring like and rainy since...
Till a couple days ago when winter began again....but it probly won't last.....

"I Don't dance unless I hear music and I refuse to be intimidated by this winter, that's just how it is!" -Coach Boon! Lol!

Anyway...I won't change the system. It's working just fine for Juniper, Spruce, Boxwood, and enough random S to keep me Nuttin up a tree or 4!

If I "can't keep deciduous trees" I'm ok with that.

But this whole....you can't kill an elm becomes..........BS! Lol!

2 to the 0 to the 1 Niner!

Sorce

 

[just.wing.it]

I have my fair share of problems with deciduous....but spring repotting has not been one.
I know @sorce has way worse winter than I do, but could it be an overwintering issue?

 

[Sn0W]

Having the same winter problem here. Temps dropped below freezing in October, now we're back at 10C and everything has woken up and is throwing shoots Elms, maples, redwoods, blueberry, pines. Not really sure what's going to happen in a few weeks when temps are expected to drop again. Just expecting things to die come spring because they have not enough resources left in the tank

 

[sorce]

overwintering

For sure....as last year is the first year I "got it right"....but even "right"..feels wrong!

woken

Where are yours?

I had waking up early issues with pots exposed amd allowed to heat up...vut hidden closer to the ground seems better to keep the roots cold too. .....

But then you watch the Mirai on keeping em dormant with the roots growing and warm..

It's All BS!

Lol!

Sorce .

 

[coh]

But this whole....you can't kill an elm becomes..........BS! Lol!

Of course it's BS! You can kill any tree if you work at it

I have no idea how you over-winter your trees so it's possible that winter conditions are pre-disposing your trees to problems. But, it's also possible
that something you're doing during the summer is making the trees weaker thus making them more susceptible to winter/spring issues. As you say,
very difficult to tackle via internet but could involve just about everything culture-related...soil type, watering (or water quality), fertilizer. If you can make
things work using summer repotting, that's a good compromise (until it isn't, anyway).

We've had the same winter here so far - very cold in November into early December, above normal with rain through December (almost hit 60 last night). No signs
of anything coming out of dormancy but it would be nice if things got a little (emphasis on little) colder this month.

 

[Silentrunning]

Two weeks ago we had 14” of snow. Today it was 69 degrees F. My Colorado Blue Spruce that are supposed to be stratifying in the ground are now sprouting. Two of my Elms are popping buds. I’m sure this winter is going to be a disaster for my trees even though I tried to follow the rules. With our recent weather I feel like trying to grow anything is like rolling dice.

 

[Sn0W]

@sorce most of my trees are on the deck and up against a fence or the side of the house. But everything in nature is doing the same. Walked around some ancient yew today and all the trees are pushing new growth. Hornbeams with buds swelling and opening, oaks, elms. Everything is confused. We had a cold snap last night and everything froze over again. Not sure how long it should take before new growth starts showing frost damage

 

[LanceMac10]

Just what do you consider "Spring", @sorce?

March 20th this year.

 

[rockm]

This is such a difficult subject to tackle via internet.
Sucks because I am so eager to really figure this out, but how to explain.....

I know for a fact that winter alone has never killed any of my trees.
I also know that spring repotting alone has never killed any of my trees.

I know that spring repotting after a winter kills my trees.

That's where I get stuck, since Spring comes after winter, I can't avoid winter, and I can't NEVER repot, so I'm exploring Summer repot, as my "Answer" or "solution". Since repotting directly after winter is the problem.

You know how you can never have enough "controls" for experiments cuz all your real data comes from there....blah blah. ....

Well all my "controls"...which is just everything else I have observed to be true and repeated/repeatable "my garden" info,
Says summer repotting is an easy/more possible fix than attempting to "play God" and stop winter.

Whereas being determined to repot in spring means going against so many things that are true in my Garden...making my life way more difficult, just to say I repot in spring like everyone else.

It just happens to be that I haven't had the 2 and 2 to make a 4 yet, for one reason or another since 2016. 2017 was the year I was still too exposed, so in February, things woke up and ended up dying so I played it safer with what lived.

You really have to live in this "fuckzone" to understand it....and I Don't mean Leo's farther North, or THG's a bit South....
Or just west beyond the "hand of the lake effect"....

My winter will have picked up and moved or otherwise destroyed that one fellers moldy hotbox before it even got moldy......this year.

Since winter started in October this year and only lasted till just before xmas ish....It's been Rather spring like and rainy since...
Till a couple days ago when winter began again....but it probly won't last.....

"I Don't dance unless I hear music and I refuse to be intimidated by this winter, that's just how it is!" -Coach Boon! Lol!

Anyway...I won't change the system. It's working just fine for Juniper, Spruce, Boxwood, and enough random S to keep me Nuttin up a tree or 4!

If I "can't keep deciduous trees" I'm ok with that.

But this whole....you can't kill an elm becomes..........BS! Lol!

2 to the 0 to the 1 Niner!

Sorce

"I know that spring repotting after a winter kills my trees."

Uh, that is a silly conclusion that skips over a lot of detail. Since the vast VAST VAST majority of people who repot elms in the spring have no issues (I've repotted many different species of elm for the last 20 years in the spring--haven't lost one), your issue is more likely HOW you're repotting, exactly WHEN you're repotting them and/or your methods of overwintering.