All aboard the Mugo train!

[sorce]

I bought some seeds this winter

Great segue because I totally been thinking about this....

I just don't see how years adjusting roots that have been grown in tiny squares, and fixing knuckles that never needs to happen, can actually be faster than grow g from seed.

At least how I balance an aesthetic end with time....
It may add 2 years...maybe 3...but well worth it for the complete control!

I stuck every cutting in the ground as a hail Mary....cuz last year I almost got one to take....

Yes seed....! Yes!

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

Here again it boils down to stubing the branches or trunks you desire to cut/remove. If you do this up-front at the beginning if you do not get die back you will most definitely get an enlarged scar. It depends on which is more desirable in this circumstance.

Below is the image of The Angry Bird Mugo after spending a few years in one of my training planters: 1999



The same tree with initial wiring. Sept 1999





First repot into a bonsai pot and the result that caused the tree to be called The Angry Bird thanks to one of the members of this forum. Take note. The large branch that has been stubed branched out and produced new growth where there was none. 2006





This is the tree as it currently appears. Notice that it now has a single trunk, though it did not originally, it has been reduced several times in the past so that now it has one major and dynamic trunk, a lot of jin reflecting past growth now removed. This image taken in March of 2017. Still a lot of work left to do.

 

[M. Frary]

The large branch that has been stubed branched out and produced new growth where there was none

My one ugly little Mugo I started this thread with did the same last year. I just assumed there was a bud already there before I stubbed the branch and jyst got lucky it didn't die without green further along the branch to draw sap past it.

 

[Bonsai901]

FWIW...that abnormality...is actually a normality for these and that one.....that one ain't bad at all! IMO...the ball anyway, the knuckle.

The tree....
It's crazy cuz for me, this one is the extreme other end of the ones with multiple, mostly useless trunks.

A Good illustration, because like everything, balance is found by knowing the extremes.

This is like the single trunk..(when I hunt them, I always think about the "elusive" single trunk Mugo) that we are always looking for.
Trouble is, this one went to that extreme where it lacks any good low branching, or movement, that we get when these do bud more, and lower....

So do you see how the perfect start is between these 2 extremes?

For instance....if the 2 I just found had knuckles that small, I would have been able to treat them completely different, leaving more foliage on, coming to a faster end with both health and design.

It would have took me from 8 years, to about 3...a rough estimate...(Vance, I wonder if you don't have enough knuckle management info to get us a better idea of the actual number of years it does take to grow them out...vs...creating a Shari...so We can better figure which path to take in certain instances, to most safely create the best looking tree)

I would kill for that small knuckle!

So for me...I would cut that down to 2 too...(sometime down the road)
In hopes that you get buds on the lowest segment of trunk. Maybe even a fresh bud at that knuckle, which you can turn into a smaller, useable branch, after cutting off one of the remaining 2 sometime even further down the road, way, way, way further.

Right now, for me, this is useless except for a "literate" from just one top section. But, for the inherent difficulties of literati, I think it would be a pretty weak image.

But the possibilities for this, when it buds down that trunk....
Pretty endless, and you will be in complete control of the future...
So while this may be a on a long "finished" timeline...it is at a "proper start".
So I would just jeep it healthy as hell!
Not worrying about knuckles or PPB (keeping potential problems at bay) in the top, cuz some 10-15 years from now....its all getting cut off!

This'll be like that other Juniper for me...

Envision that sacrifice top as a cup full of energy.
And your future tree which doesn't even exist yet as an empty cup.

The idea is to SLOWLY move the energy from cup to cup, without spilling any.

Slowly. As thoughtfully as possible.

So when you get a ring of buds around the bottom...knock any useless ones off knowing that spilt energy must then remain in the sacrifice....and tend your one little precious remaining bud (or 2 if you are not careful, "it depends") into your future tree.

(Disclaimer...people find bud knocking dangerous and ridiculous...I only recommend it because I am aware of the health risks, I am aware I am adding great time to the length of the project, I am aware of the difficulties and risks in keeping just that one branch alive, but I am willing to do this for a more aesthetically pleasing end.)

Choo Choo...chew chew, just food fpr thought.

Sorce

Sorce, this was extremely helpful. Now if my old gray matter can absorb some of it, I might have a decent mugo before I die. LOL

Thanks to all for the input, I have been too busy to get any new shots this weekend, but they will come soon.

 

[sorce]

extremely helpful

Quote jumping phenom says I must make sure you saw this "extremely helpful" post.

Here again it boils down to stubing the branches or trunks you desire to cut/remove. If you do this up-front at the beginning if you do not get die back you will most definitely get an enlarged scar. It depends on which is more desirable in this circumstance.

Below is the image of The Angry Bird Mugo after spending a few years in one of my training planters: 1999

View attachment 185637

The same tree with initial wiring. Sept 1999



View attachment 185638

First repot into a bonsai pot and the result that caused the tree to be called The Angry Bird thanks to one of the members of this forum. Take note. The large branch that has been stubed branched out and produced new growth where there was none. 2006


View attachment 185639


This is the tree as it currently appears. Notice that it now has a single trunk, though it did not originally, it has been reduced several times in the past so that now it has one major and dynamic trunk, a lot of jin reflecting past growth now removed. This image taken in March of 2017. Still a lot of work left to do.

View attachment 185640

These are the posts that both begin, and confirm/disprove all the stupid(excessive) shit I think!

The Real..Extremely Helpful posts!

Thanks Vance!

Sorce

 

[VAFisher]

Here's a little mugo that I've had in a pot for 2 or 3 years. I can't say I've done much work to it other than remove some branches from the whorl and stick it in this Iker pot. Eventually I may plant it in a basket to try to thicken it but I think it's kinda cute as is, so I'm not feeling the need to do it now.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here's a little mugo that I've had in a pot for 2 or 3 years. I can't say I've done much work to it other than remove some branches from the whorl and stick it in this Iker pot. Eventually I may plant it in a basket to try to thicken it but I think it's kinda cute as is, so I'm not feeling the need to do it now.
View attachment 186369

There's nothing drastically wrong with this little tree, it just needs to have some movement put into the trunk and the crown opened up to expose the branching and let the light in.

 

[sorce]

What happens when one of them oil tankers catch fire?

Cut that bitch out the consist...leave it and keep going!

This last one is getting strategically abused this summer...or more accurately...
It is the first choice for this R-O-rock.

Because this rock offers many different useable positions and pockets that may accept what will be quite stiff roots..

In having so many options with this one rock, and with 4 (or more) 1 gl Mugo in cans to be potted...

I will be successfully creating a Mugo o'er rock planting this summer.

If it burns...I found a dude on the book with a gang of Mugo seedling growing. ..IMO...
To hell with these nursery roots...

How Old is a one gallon Mugo that has every great future except for crap roots...2 years?

Doing it.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

..I found a dude on the book with a gang of Mugo seedling growing

Forget the book. I'll be planting some seeds soon. I hope soon anyway. It's still winter here.

 

[sorce]

Forget the book. I'll be planting some seeds soon. I hope soon anyway. It's still winter here.

Nice..I have been scouring all conesof Scots and Mio lol it spell checked Mugo to Mio!

Well played smartphone! But fuck you that shit is creepy!

Haven't found any...you know...local first...next step friends....next step order seeds online. ..

I need seed!....ahem!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Well played smartphone! But fuck you that shit is creepy!

It knows more than you think.

I need seed!....ahem!

The ones I ordered from Sheffield Seed are called Rostrata. An upright,pine tree form.
Next year I'm getting more if everything goes good here this year.
Plus I'll be planting some Blue Auvignone Scots pine seeds.
I'll bring a seedling or 6 down to our show for you. You might need a trailer to haul everything back that youre likely to recieve there.

 

[sorce]

It knows more than you think.
The ones I ordered from Sheffield Seed are called Rostrata. An upright,pine tree form.
Next year I'm getting more if everything goes good here this year.
Plus I'll be planting some Blue Auvignone Scots pine seeds.
I'll bring a seedling or 6 down to our show for you. You might need a trailer to haul everything back that youre likely to recieve there.

Phone is twisted! Remember that photo I took of that MIO shot at the grocery store?
I applied for a job as head of their floral department last week...

That pic was on an old Phone but here.
Crabapple flowers.
Trade for a pine...
Mugo ..Mio...

It's fucking wrong!

The computers Don't have the ability to decipher Human Emotion it depends....

I think about Suicide every day I have to figure life out thru tough shit, because of the way I balance EVERYTHING from the extremes....I only realized this myself a couple weeks ago confirm myself sane!

I'm sure I'm on their list.

It's true what Jay-z said on that Letterman show about Trump...
"These issues must be brought up in order to solve them"

So in that it is good. ..

But that's Just a well played part of the brainwashing agenda IMO....
The dangled Carrot.lol carrot..(coincidence?)
The big picture is more gloomy.

When all we NEED to do is wake up....


WTF?

Earth is more comfortable!

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

My one ugly little Mugo I started this thread with did the same last year. I just assumed there was a bud already there before I stubbed the branch and jyst got lucky it didn't die without green further along the branch to draw sap past it.

There are always buds there, it is only a matter of getting them to become active. It is very common in Bristlecone Pines. They are called Epicormic buds, and are not easy to see. Some trees may have them become active and some tree you may never see them again once old needles are shed.

 

[sorce]

@parhamr @RKatzin any mugos in pure OrePumice out there?

Thinking My RKPumice is going to be used for My ROR MUGO.

Sorce

 

[RKatzin]

@parhamr @RKatzin any mugos in pure OrePumice out there?

Thinking My RKPumice is going to be used for My ROR MUGO.

Sorce

My mugo are in about 70% pumice and 30% organic, consisting of decomposed wood, sphagnum and composted forest material. Almost all my trees are being repotted into pumice.

 

[MrWunderful]

I read through a bunch of this thread a few weeks earlier and have been on the lookout for a mugo ever since. Finally made it to half moon bay nursery last weekend and found this little guy buried behind some cryptomeria. It was only 10$ and it appears to have minimal knuckle and and interesting informal shape. It looks to be somewhat vigorous as well. Sorry for the pics, it needs to be pruned.

I know I live in zone 9, but my house is on the hill and we have cool foggy summers. I plan on moving the mugo to a shady area that only gets an hour of sun a day in the winter. It generally doesnt get above 60 and gets down to about 32-36 where the plant will be living. Hopefully it will survive!

I already have a 6” pond pasket waiting for it, and I will wait until july to prune and repot based on the recomendations in this thread.

While I read about 45 pages worth, I didn’t see if Vance had mentioned a prefered soil composition, has that been discussed?

I ended up filling a full page of notes with info from here, thank you again for all your knowledge Vance.

 

[sorce]

I know I live in zone 9, but my house is on the hill and we have cool foggy summers. I plan on moving the mugo to a shady area that only gets an hour of sun a day in the winter. It generally doesnt get above 60 and gets down to about 32-36 where the plant will be living. Hopefully it will survive

This paragraph is a not confusing...season wise...

I have never seen candles so unevenly opening and extending....

May be a root issue.

Just Don't remove any of the long ones in case them short ones aint making it .

Nice.

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

I believe it has been discussed in the past, the issue of soil and Mugos. I use a basic bonsai mix made of three major components. I do not use Akadama it turns into snot/mucus and sludge in a time span less than I want to be forced into repotting a tree. I use composted Pine bark mulch sold in the trade as garden compost. I use the red volcanic gravel and as coarse a sand that I can find. All elements are combined by volume not weight, usually in equal amounts.

You need to start thinning out the growth, mostly needles. Go into the interior of the tree and start removing any needles that grow at the six O'clock position viewed as if the branch were the center of a clock face looking at it face on. Do not cut candles yet. You need to grow this tree in nearly full sun, to partial shade. Once everything is starting to push take some pictures and post them again so we can proceed in a logical manner with your tree. San Francisco area was where I fist learned the realities of Bonsai. It is a great place to grow bonsai. Do not baby a Mugo but don't abuse it either. My first bonsai was a Mugo that I promptly killed by not taking it seriously. Do not be afraid to ask questions.

 

[MrWunderful]

This paragraph is a not confusing...season wise...

I have never seen candles so unevenly opening and extending....

May be a root issue.

Just Don't remove any of the long ones in case them short ones aint making it .

Nice.

Sorce

I should have been more clear, apologies.

In the winter it stays pretty cold and wet (for california) and its extremely foggy and wet in the summer due to marine layer.

 

[MrWunderful]

I believe it has been discussed in the past, the issue of soil and Mugos. I use a basic bonsai mix made of three major components. I do not use Akadama it turns into snot/mucus and sludge in a time span less than I want to be forced into repotting a tree. I use composted Pine bark mulch sold in the trade as garden compost. I use the red volcanic gravel and as coarse a sand that I can find. All elements are combined by volume not weight, usually in equal amounts.

You need to start thinning out the growth, mostly needles. Go into the interior of the tree and start removing any needles that grow at the six O'clock position viewed as if the branch were the center of a clock face looking at it face on. Do not cut candles yet. You need to grow this tree in nearly full sun, to partial shade. Once everything is starting to push take some pictures and post them again so we can proceed in a logical manner with your tree. San Francisco area was where I fist learned the realities of Bonsai. It is a great place to grow bonsai. Do not baby a Mugo but don't abuse it either. My first bonsai was a Mugo that I promptly killed by not taking it seriously. Do not be afraid to ask questions.

Vance, thank you for taking the time to respond. When I repot, I will use sifted pine multch and sifted red horticultural lava. I also have pumice if you think it could benefit.

I have watched your videos on cutting the needles. Is it ok to do this now? Or should I wait until july? Should I trim a certain percentage of needles( ie 30%?) at 6 0’clock? Or cut all of the branches needles at 6?

Thank you for your time.