Air layering a blue cedar limb

[LarryAldrich]

Hi all,
I'm planning to air layer a nice limb on a blue cedar landscape tree I have next spring. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I've only done maples up to this point. And I'm not finding much info on line or in the bonsai forums.
I'm wondering if doing as straight turnicate methow is better than stripping a ring of bark.
I know it could take a full year or longer. If I'm going to invest that much time I want to do the best job possible.

Thanks for any advice.

Larry Aldrich
Seattle WA.

 

[0soyoung]

A hard lesson I learned with air layering Atlas cedar is that one needs a light touch when cutting the girdle. The bark is fairly thin and newer sap wood is very soft. I cut into several years worth of wood the first time I did it. Then I wound up pulling off that several years worth of wood with the bark leaving a spindly core that proved to be very fragile (i.e., the branch later broke off 'in handling').

My take on tourniquettes is that they are a great way to induce some awesome basal flare, but it costs at least an extra season in the process of getting roots. If you want this flare, I suggest that you tightly install the tourniquette anytime from now to mid-May and leave it in place until mid-May 2016. Then remove it and cut the girdle top at the base of the flare. Then proceed like you would any air layer. If you don't care that much about having the flare, you could cut the girdle (and pack it up as you do other air-layers) anytime between now and mid-May 2015.

 

[Cmanz]

Here is a cedrus brevifolia the I Tried the tourniquet method on starting in spring 2013. September 2014 I opened the bag and applied the ring bark method. This brevifolia will be my first attempt air layering cedar with strong hormone. 3% IBA in talc. The pic definitely show the flare as a result of the tourniquet. Now all I need is roots.

 

[LarryAldrich]

Thanks, I will go ahead and apply the turnicate now and give it a year and a half to swell up.

 

[Cmanz]

Thanks, I will go ahead and apply the turnicate now and give it a year and a half to swell up.

If you have enough stock material I would start as many as possible. I have yet to get roots on any cedars I have attempted air layers on.

Good luck.

 

[LarryAldrich]

I really only have one limb that is worth trying. I will try it all the same. Never hurts to try.

 

[LarryAldrich]

A hard lesson I learned with air layering Atlas cedar is that one needs a light touch when cutting the girdle. The bark is fairly thin and newer sap wood is very soft. I cut into several years worth of wood the first time I did it. Then I wound up pulling off that several years worth of wood with the bark leaving a spindly core that proved to be very fragile (i.e., the branch later broke off 'in handling').

My take on tourniquettes is that they are a great way to induce some awesome basal flare, but it costs at least an extra season in the process of getting roots. If you want this flare, I suggest that you tightly install the tourniquette anytime from now to mid-May and leave it in place until mid-May 2016. Then remove it and cut the girdle top at the base of the flare. Then proceed like you would any air layer. If you don't care that much about having the flare, you could cut the girdle (and pack it up as you do other air-layers) anytime between now and mid-May 2015.

Oso, have you actually been able to get roots from an air layer on a cedar?

Thanks,
Larry

 

[0soyoung]

Oso, have you actually been able to get roots from an air layer on a cedar?

On my second go at it, I had some whitish projections that could have been the beginnings of roots when the tree died about mid-way through the second season. In this case I was trying to layer a trunk bent over into a cascade from a vertical rise of almost a foot above the pot to the bend.

I've seen the conventional wisdom that cedrus atlantica cannot be layered. I am skeptical, but have no evidence to the contrary. On the other hand, all sorts of similar claims are made about p. thunbergii, but I have succeeded all three times I've layered Japanese black pines, using branches/trunks that were at least 5 years old when I started the layers. I got roots in one season going with the standard girdle straight away, but our growing seasons are so short that it takes most of a second season to have enough strong roots for the explant to survive.

I think cedrus atlantica is likely similar; i.e., it will root, but requires multple seasons to make a viable explant. If I come across one in a close-out/lemon sale I might give it another try to satisfy my curiousity. Otherwise, I'm waiting for you to tell me/us about your results in the late summer of 2016 or 2017.

 

[discusmike]

Good luck,most are unsuccessful

 

[Bilbo_Baggins]

Here is a cedrus brevifolia the I Tried the tourniquet method on starting in spring 2013. September 2014 I opened the bag and applied the ring bark method. This brevifolia will be my first attempt air layering cedar with strong hormone. 3% IBA in talc. The pic definitely show the flare as a result of the tourniquet. Now all I need is roots.

Did you ever succeed in getting workable roots on your C. Brevifolia?}
I have two (which are both grafts) I'd like to get off the root stock.
Considering attempting an air layer at mid-level as a test.
I tried BAC a few times with the standard ring-bark method but all failed entirely (swell and callus but zero roots).

 

[Bilbo_Baggins]

Thanks, I will go ahead and apply the turnicate now and give it a year and a half to swell up.

Did you proceed with this project and if so, what were the methods and results?

I have two C. Brevifolia (which are both grafts) I'd like to get off the root stock.
Considering attempting an air layer at mid-level as a test.
I tried BAC a few times with the standard ring-bark method but all failed entirely (swell and callus but zero roots).

 

[Paradox]

Did you ever succeed in getting workable roots on your C. Brevifolia?}
I have two (which are both grafts) I'd like to get off the root stock.
Considering attempting an air layer at mid-level as a test.
I tried BAC a few times with the standard ring-bark method but all failed entirely (swell and callus but zero roots).

FYI. The people you are quoting havent logged in for 3 and 4 years and this thread is 7 years old.
Doubt youll get a response

 

[Bilbo_Baggins]

FYI. The people you are quoting havent logged in for 3 and 4 years and this thread is 7 years old.
Doubt youll get a response

Yes, I'm already aware.
But I won't know at all if I don't at least ask.
Right?

I'm not holding my breath...

 

[Paradox]

Yes, I'm already aware.
But I won't know at all if I don't at least ask.
Right?

I'm not holding my breath...

If you like spitting into the wind I suppose
Something tells me if they havent been here in 3 and 4 years, they arent coming back

 

[hinmo24t]

Yes, I'm already aware.
But I won't know at all if I don't at least ask.
Right?

I'm not holding my breath...

pass the pipe Bilbo!!!

 

[Bilbo_Baggins]

If you like spitting into the wind I suppose
Something tells me if they havent been here in 3 and 4 years, they arent coming back

"spitting into the wind" implies some adverse blowback.
Originally, I hadn't really calculated these queries posed any risk.

I admit I didn't anticipate such a pre-emptive negative interaction with someone to whom I wasn't even asking anything.
Silly me.
Live and learn!

 

[Paradox]

Silly me.
Live and learn!

I agree that it is silly to expect a response to a thread that hasn't had a reply in 7 years by people that haven't even been here in 3 and 4 years.

You might actually get better results by starting a new thread and asking the current forum inhabitants if they have ever successfully airlayered the species you are asking about.

Quick google search indicates they are very difficult to air layer.

Found one successful result of a different cedar species

Cedrus deodar shohin layer

I had been ground growing a deodar for several years & it was time to start removing the unwanted parts, instead of just chopping I decided to try layering. The

ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com

Another attempt, wasnt successful but cuttings seem to be which is odd that would work but not air layer

Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

So, I just love the Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') for bonsai. But became VERY frustrated in my efforts to acquire any. I bought 2 from a seller o

ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com

Good luck if you try it

 

[hinmo24t]

I agree that it is silly to expect a response to a thread that hasn't had a reply in 7 years by people that haven't even been here in 3 and 4 years.

You might actually get better results by starting a new thread and asking the current forum inhabitants if they have ever successfully airlayered the species you are asking about.

they bumped the thread to the top of main page...effective. got me curious and i want a blue cedar now. id rather an old thread get bumped than a new thread generally, most people skip to newest post or last page anyway

 

[Paradox]

they bumped the thread to the top of main page...effective. got me curious and i want a blue cedar now. id rather an old thread get bumped than a new thread generally, most people skip to newest post or last page anyway

yea I did a quick google search as well because I too was curious.
Seems a few people have tried to air layer cedar species but with not much success.
I edited my last post to show a couple of the results I found

yea blue cedars are pretty cool. Cuttings seem to work for some reason so I might see if I can find a cheap one and try some cuttings myself

 

[Paradox]

eh found another reference.

Seems like cuttings arent so sucessful either

Care guide for the Cedar Bonsai tree (Cedrus) - Bonsai Empire

Cedar Bonsai Care guidelines Placement The cedar needs a position in full sun for healthy growth. In wintertime, protect the tree from freezing temperatures and...

www.bonsaiempire.com