Air layer started to drop leaves after 2 days

[xisbi]

hi

I am new to air layering and could use some help. I air layered a meyer lemon tree and within a day the leaves of the air layered part started to fall. Did I remove too much when I was removing the bark of the branch? the new growth that was on the branch before the air layer so far kept their leaves but all the flowers and other leaves fall off.

thanks in advance

 

[0soyoung]

Sounds like you didn't grow enough adventitious roots before 'harvesting' it.

 

[xisbi]

I didn't harvest it at all it is only 2 days since I started the air layer. The branch is still attached to the tree

 

[0soyoung]

I didn't harvest it at all it is only 2 days since I started the air layer. The branch is still attached to the tree

Oh, I see. That is strange, ... so immediate and effect. If it is still attached to the tree, we should be able to say that the xylem is still continuous and the stem you are trying to layer should still be getting water.
A pic would help a lot.

Nothing has happened in the way of making roots in such a short time, so, I recommend that you remove the rooting media you have around the girdle and take a pic, post it, and then you may get some useful guidance.

 

[xisbi]

Thanks. I removed the skin(bark) and tried to scrape hard to remove the cambium and might have removed some of the hardwood not sure could that stop water flow to the leaves? It is hard to tell with lemon tree what is cambium or wood. I will take pictures and post when I get home.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Watch out for Lemon Beavers.

Sorce

 

[choppychoppy]

Thanks. I removed the skin(bark) and tried to scrape hard to remove the cambium and might have removed some of the hardwood not sure could that stop water flow to the leaves? It is hard to tell with lemon tree what is cambium or wood. I will take pictures and post when I get home.

If you can't tell how far to scrape then the branch is probably too thin to layer and you've killed it. Picture please.

 

[Johnnyd]

I had the same problem last year when I airlayered my Sharps pygmy Japanese maple. It may have been heat stress. I moved it to shade and it leafed out again three weeks later.
If you have time check out the thread " The Science of air layering ".
Hopefully it comes back. Good luck.!

 

[xisbi]

I have attached pictures, As you can see the other part of the same tree is doing fine and growing but the layered part all the older leaves fall and the new growth leaves are rolling up. I took off the layer for the photos. Could it be the potting soil I am using? it sees the rest of the leaves are hanging on but rolling up.

 

[choppychoppy]

I have attached pictures, As you can see the other part of the same tree is doing fine and growing but the layered part all the older leaves fall and the new growth leaves are rolling up. I took off the layer for the photos. Could it be the potting soil I am using? it sees the rest of the leaves are hanging on but rolling up.

Section was too thin to layer. This is the size cutting that is usually taken. Layers are to make 'trees' if you want more plants take cuttings.

 

[0soyoung]

Section was too thin to layer.

I agree.
The physiology is that trees compartmentalize damage (CODIT). Girdling causes living cells in the wood to clog up the xylem/wood tubes that carry water to the leaves. This always happens to some depth into the wood. With a thick stem, the amount of clogged xylem is minor, so it is like nothing happened. The leaves still get plenty of water from the roots. With a small stem the depth to which the xylem gets clogged amounts to the entire stem being clogged. Then water no longer gets to the leaves - it is suddenly equivalent to a cutting instead of being a layer.

 

[Dan92119]

I have air layered a Meyer lemon a few times. Mine were about 3/4 diameter. Turned out to be super easy to layer.

 

[xisbi]

I agree.
The physiology is that trees compartmentalize damage (CODIT). Girdling causes living cells in the wood to clog up the xylem/wood tubes that carry water to the leaves. This always happens to some depth into the wood. With a thick stem, the amount of clogged xylem is minor, so it is like nothing happened. The leaves still get plenty of water from the roots. With a small stem the depth to which the xylem gets clogged amounts to the entire stem being clogged. Then water no longer gets to the leaves - it is suddenly equivalent to a cutting instead of being a layer.

Makes sense, But this is very small tree and this branch is not small for meyer lemon. I have seen smaller branches from lemon trees being air layered. The roll in the leaves might mean something, if a branch is dead or dying usually leaves get limp but the leaves feel healthy but rolled down. it is very strange.

 

[0soyoung]

You didn't mention anything about having applied rooting hormone or not. Using one that is too concentrated can cause the foliage to go through the motions like it is fall. With acer palmatums this will make the leaves turn very red like they do in fall. I don't know the behavior of Meyer lemon before leaf drop.

Next time, try cutting around the stem, once for the top of the girdle and another for the bottom. Then make a single cut, down the length of the stem, between those two. Then peel away the ring of bark and leave it sit for a few days, or even for a week before you bundle it up in damp sphagnum covered with some kind of plastic film. This will do far less damage to the xylem than scraping and all of the xylem initials that can lead to bridging will have desiccated (dead). IOW, cut the girdle (and optionally apply rooting hormone) one weekend and bundle it up the next.

 

[xisbi]

You didn't mention anything about having applied rooting hormone or not. Using one that is too concentrated can cause the foliage to go through the motions like it is fall. With acer palmatums this will make the leaves turn very red like they do in fall. I don't know the behavior of Meyer lemon before leaf drop.

Next time, try cutting around the stem, once for the top of the girdle and another for the bottom. Then make a single cut, down the length of the stem, between those two. Then peel away the ring of bark and leave it sit for a few days, or even for a week before you bundle it up in damp sphagnum covered with some kind of plastic film. This will do far less damage to the xylem than scraping and all of the xylem initials that can lead to bridging will have desiccated (dead). IOW, cut the girdle (and optionally apply rooting hormone) one weekend and bundle it up the next.

Yes I did use rooting hormone gel, could that be the problem? I might have put the on too much of it. The new growth leaves seem to hold on to the branch and seem they plan to fall. I will keep the layer on untill branch dies or grow roots. Thank you everyone that tried to help

 

[0soyoung]

The lable should state the concentration in the gel.
It should be something like 0.3% (3000 ppm) IBA or 0.2% NAA.
If the numbers are much larger, like 1% say, it could be the source of your trouble @xisbi .

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Foliage dropping seems to be pretty common in citrus varieties when they're stressed. It doesn't worry me a whole lot. Trifoliata, mandarin and lemon cuttings have all dropped their foliage here, only to make new foliage just before roots started to form.
Here in Northern Europe they aren't meant to grow outdoors. So they go bald sometimes. It can take half a year for them to come back. But they always came back.

I haven't seen any adverse effects of hormones on the citrus families, more like the opposite; i regrew entire plants from callus, with eye-balled concentrations. I'm pretty sure I could do it drunk.

I'd leave the air layer until you're sure it's dead.

 

[xisbi]

It's been days, leaves still rolled down and starting to limp. The other part of the plant which I pruned heavily, seems to grow faster than usual. I will see a bud opening up today, by the next day they seem to branch out fast. In only 3 days the heavily pruned tree grow back with leaves. but the air layered side is not doing wall. if it is not the gel, than it might be the potting soil. I am using potting soil from a pot of tree that died in the winter. I will post here if it grows back. Thanks for the help.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Wait.. You're using old potting soil as a medium to air layer something?
I must have missed that. That's bad practice.

Potting soil rots, it sinks in, it attracts bugs. We want minor antifungal properties, aeration and fluffyness. That's why sphagnum moss is recommended almost everywhere.

Just out of curiosity, where did you get the info that potting soil would work?

 

[xisbi]

I can't get my hands on sphagnum moss locally here, we only have peat moss. Old potting soil is a big no no ha.

The branch started to turn brown this morning so I cut it off. I will attempt on my bigger citrus tree again, will peat moss work?