Advice on JM trunk chop

[Josh88]

I picked up this Japanese Maple last fall at a local garden center. I felt like it would be perfect for developing into a shohin using the first branch on the right as the new leader. My question is how long should I leave the upper part of the tree to thicken the trunk? Should I remove it this season to minimize the wound size and let the new leader take over, or continue to let it thicken the lower section of trunk? As I am trying to better understand all aspects of the development process I appreciate all input and advice.

 

[parhamr]

Since scars and marks are to be avoided as strongly as possible with deciduous trees, I would do the chop now and use the new leader to heal the cut. Let the left-side buds go long to contribute to trunk girth.

(The top section looks good enough to air layer off!)

 

[Josh88]

Since scars and marks are to be avoided as strongly as possible with deciduous trees, I would do the chop now and use the new leader to heal the cut. Let the left-side buds go long to contribute to trunk girth.

(The top section looks good enough to air layer off!)
Definitely want to layer the top and get two nice trees out of this guy. Would you leave room on the chop for dieback or should I be pretty safe with all of that growth right there where I want to cut?

 

[parhamr]

Maybe leave an inch?

 

[ConorDash]

Are you sure that'd be chopping low enough? I can see the fact that there is a new leader there ready to go, is very adventitious but chopping there, seems like it leaves a good amount of taperless trunk below. Has good movement, certainly but taperless. Maybe it's just the single picture angle and I'm wrong.

 

[Paulpash]

Air layer the top Chop just above the 4th branch. Leave it to get strong then chop next season.

 

[Josh88]

Are you sure that'd be chopping low enough? I can see the fact that there is a new leader there ready to go, is very adventitious but chopping there, seems like it leaves a good amount of taperless trunk below. Has good movement, certainly but taperless. Maybe it's just the single picture angle and I'm wrong.

I will have to give it another look with that in mind. That right branch is only about 3 inches above the soil line, but there are buds coming from the internode below it that would allow for much of the same movement that I have in mind with a bit more room to develop taper. Some food for thought for sure. Thanks for your input.

 

[Josh88]

Air layer the top Chop just above the 4th branch. Leave it to get strong then chop next season.

Curious what the advantages are in doing the chop in a two phase sequence as opposed to chopping low when I take the layer off?

 

[Paulpash]

Curious what the advantages are in doing the chop in a two phase sequence as opposed to chopping low when I take the layer off?

Insurance - Japanese maples can and do die back from chops. If you chop an inch or two above your intended leader and it happens it's disaster. Chop higher, get the leader stronger then eliminate all buds above it. The tree is far less likely to die back past a branch that has so much vigor. Come back in later and chop off the upper part above your new leader that will naturally die back (without buds / leaves).

Or ... you could just risk it

 

[Josh88]

Insurance - Japanese maples can and do die back from chops. If you chop an inch or two above your intended leader and it happens it's disaster. Chop higher, get the leader stronger then eliminate all buds above it. The tree is far less likely to die back past a branch that has so much vigor. Come back in later and chop off the upper part above your new leader that will naturally die back (without buds / leaves).

Or ... you could just risk it

Sounds good

 

[ConorDash]

Insurance - Japanese maples can and do die back from chops. If you chop an inch or two above your intended leader and it happens it's disaster. Chop higher, get the leader stronger then eliminate all buds above it. The tree is far less likely to die back past a branch that has so much vigor. Come back in later and chop off the upper part above your new leader that will naturally die back (without buds / leaves).

Or ... you could just risk it

Good tip, thank you. I didn't know maples were so prone to dieback from chops that other species would not normally.

 

[erb.75]

I wouldn't chop. If it were mine, I'd let it grow out until the trunk is at least a solid inch or 1.5''. Even with shohin, you get amazing trees with trunks that are much larger than branches

just my 2cents. Nice little curve at the base though. You could introduce into that lowest bud all sorts of interesting curves once it grows a bit more. The larger the trunk, the less it will matter that the bud is higher on the trunk past the curve

 

[Josh88]

Now that this tree is waking up I made my next move. I chose not to layer the top last year as I didn’t want to cut off resources coming back down the trunk that would slow thickening below. I also decided to move toward likely a chuhin sized tree and cut above a slightly higher branch with the opposite side as a front. This will leave any scarring on the back side of the new leader and gives better movement away then toward the viewer. Next spring I would like to put it on a board and make some progress on roots. Looking forward to watching this grow.

 

[Adamantium]

I could be wrong, but according to Bonsai4Me, the best time to do this would have been mid-summer, no?

I don't think you're gonna end up with too many issues the way you did it, but the wound might heal over better if it had been done in mid-summer. Good thing you have the mound facing the back.

I like the new front. Looks cleaner to me.

 

[Josh88]

I could be wrong, but according to Bonsai4Me, the best time to do this would have been mid-summer, no?

I don't think you're gonna end up with too many issues the way you did it, but the wound might heal over better if it had been done in mid-summer. Good thing you have the mound facing the back.

I like the new front. Looks cleaner to me.

I touched base with a forum member particularly good with developing Japanese maples and he felt that cutting as the buds swell would be the way to go, and also recommended doing root work this season. With my experience level I'm a little leery of doing so much in one season, but I want to take advantage of the advice that I reach out for and develop my trees as effectively as possible, so I will likely wait til the buds extend a bit more and take the root work plunge this season. The wound is certainly pushing water, as you can see the water having run down the trunk from under the cut paste in the photo, but my hope is since these grow so well in my area I won't have any major issues. Thank you as always for sharing your thoughts and input.

 

[LanceMac10]

Chop and root prune all at once. Bleeding greatly reduced. June might be a little better for a chop if your not working the roots.

Too late now, however

Just who did you ask, if I might pose a query?

 

[LanceMac10]

Buds don't look like their active, you have some time for a good repot!

 

[Josh88]

Chop and root prune all at once. Bleeding greatly reduced. June might be a little better for a chop if your not working the roots.

Too late now, however

Just who did you ask, if I might pose a query?

I love the work that Sergio does and I'm always so impressed with how he develops his trees. I trust that he will steer me in the right direction.

 

[Paulpash]

The best time to chop to avoid bleeding is when the tree starts to drop it's first leaf as it shuts down for winter. Most of the sugars are moving down into the roots and it is still active enough to seal the chop site.

 

[Driftwood]

The best time to chop to avoid bleeding is when the tree starts to drop it's first leaf as it shuts down for winter. Most of the sugars are moving down into the roots and it is still active enough to seal the chop site.

Will now, December 6 on mild weather 14 C with down to 7C in two weeks will be too late?