Advice on digging this?
- Thread starter Scrogdor
- Start date
Looks big...how big is the trunk at the base?
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Nope. Grafted. It looks to have 'neck up' issues at the base of the trunk. That will only get worse
ShimpakuBonsai
Chumono
Maybe you can try to airlayer one of the bigger branches to start a tree with that.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
There may be some inverse taper in the trunk but it is possible to transplant larger JM.
You can get away with remarkably little root when transplanting maples. I generally chop roots back to around 1 trunk diameter when transplanting maples.
Japanese maples are unpredictable when doing drastic chops. Sometimes they come through with all roots and branches alive and well. Sometimes one side will die off completely for no real reason. All you can do is try.
As to whether it is worth, depends on your skill level, what other trees you already have and how much you value your time, effort and potting soil.
My observations after many years of collecting:
Trees look great in the ground. Not quite as good after it comes out of the ground. Worse when it is in a pot. After a few weeks you'll wonder why you bothered.
Trunks are much bigger once you get the out of the ground. make sure you have larger containers to put it in.
Trunks weigh way more than you imagined. If you plan to retain soil on the roots plan to have a machine or some good friends with more muscle than brains to assist. ( no beer until after the job is finished!)
The bonsai pot you will eventually need will be bigger and cost way more than you imagined.
By the time the tree is showable you'll be too old and decrepit to move it, especially if you insist on digging more big trees.
have fun whatever you decide to do with this one.
You can get away with remarkably little root when transplanting maples. I generally chop roots back to around 1 trunk diameter when transplanting maples.
Japanese maples are unpredictable when doing drastic chops. Sometimes they come through with all roots and branches alive and well. Sometimes one side will die off completely for no real reason. All you can do is try.
As to whether it is worth, depends on your skill level, what other trees you already have and how much you value your time, effort and potting soil.
My observations after many years of collecting:
Trees look great in the ground. Not quite as good after it comes out of the ground. Worse when it is in a pot. After a few weeks you'll wonder why you bothered.
Trunks are much bigger once you get the out of the ground. make sure you have larger containers to put it in.
Trunks weigh way more than you imagined. If you plan to retain soil on the roots plan to have a machine or some good friends with more muscle than brains to assist. ( no beer until after the job is finished!)
The bonsai pot you will eventually need will be bigger and cost way more than you imagined.
By the time the tree is showable you'll be too old and decrepit to move it, especially if you insist on digging more big trees.
have fun whatever you decide to do with this one.
RoadManDenDron
Shohin
If its cheap/free and you have little/no experience digging and collecting i say go for it as a learning experience
If you keep it alive I'd style a few branches ready to layer in a year maybe 2, style the rest like a niwaki in a big pot and sell it on as a garden tree after a few years development
If you keep it alive I'd style a few branches ready to layer in a year maybe 2, style the rest like a niwaki in a big pot and sell it on as a garden tree after a few years development
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Everything Shibui said. Big trees are budget and back breakers. A pot for that thing will probably run $600-$1000 if you can find one. Moving a pot that large is a two man job. Simply having a stand that will support it is an engineering feat as well. Going through all of this with a large bonsai that is getting a new pot this spring. The older I get, the more of a pain it becomes. You have to love the tree, or it's not worth it. Mediocre or iffy trees aren't worth the expense or physical pain and effort involved in keeping them.
Scrogdor
Chumono
think I’ll leave this for someone else after all these responses. I’ll take a drive by it tomorrow to see it in person since it’s in my neighborhood. Or a walk I guess since my car was stolen last week 
.
Then again, if it looks doable maybe I’ll give a go and just use a cut down 15gal pot that I have for free. Gonna be real budget bonsai for a while, car is gonna set me back quite a bit, real unfortunate being in a graduate program/not working rn.
.Then again, if it looks doable maybe I’ll give a go and just use a cut down 15gal pot that I have for free. Gonna be real budget bonsai for a while, car is gonna set me back quite a bit, real unfortunate being in a graduate program/not working rn.
Maiden69
Masterpiece
How much space and time do you have? Is it a cultivar you desire? If you have space, time, and you like the cultivar get it... You don't need to place it on a pot, use an oversize pot or plant it in the ground. Next year if it recovered, you can decide what to do with it. You could make plenty of air layers for you to keep or to sell and make some money. While at the same time you can start eliminating branches not needed in case you finally decide to ground layer at a location that will remove the graft and any inverse taper there may be.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Too big IMO and the graft not worth it.
Agree with making it a landscape tree and taking air layers in a year or two if you have the space to plant it. Otherwise, leave it.
Sorry about the car....that sucks
Agree with making it a landscape tree and taking air layers in a year or two if you have the space to plant it. Otherwise, leave it.
Sorry about the car....that sucks
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
There's no reason not to collect it, but the downside is steep.
Sure you can take cuttings, but not reliably until it recovers and that will take longer than one year. Two is better. This looks like a Bloodgood cultivar or something similar from the long extension growth and dried red leaves it has on it. Extremely common variety sold everywhere, not a real great bonsai subject (although the large size on this one could help). Sure you can ground layer the trunk above the graft, but such a large trunk, spotty results are likely with that.
If you really want to make money on it, don't prune it, take as much of the top as you can get and sell the entire tree to a professional landscaper if you can. An intact tree can be more valuable than one that has been severely reduced. You will have to find a specialist landscaper that buys and sells mature plantings. That can be tricky since some bill tree owners for removal of tree like this.
If you want to make it into a bonsai, you will need a pot. Getting it into a container sooner at collection/initial root reduction is better than later, particularly if you plant it in the ground--which means collecting it all over again at some point. A bonsai without a pot is not really a bonsai. A cut down plastic tub ain't really the same if you're aiming for bonsai, not so bad if you're not.
Sure you can take cuttings, but not reliably until it recovers and that will take longer than one year. Two is better. This looks like a Bloodgood cultivar or something similar from the long extension growth and dried red leaves it has on it. Extremely common variety sold everywhere, not a real great bonsai subject (although the large size on this one could help). Sure you can ground layer the trunk above the graft, but such a large trunk, spotty results are likely with that.
If you really want to make money on it, don't prune it, take as much of the top as you can get and sell the entire tree to a professional landscaper if you can. An intact tree can be more valuable than one that has been severely reduced. You will have to find a specialist landscaper that buys and sells mature plantings. That can be tricky since some bill tree owners for removal of tree like this.
If you want to make it into a bonsai, you will need a pot. Getting it into a container sooner at collection/initial root reduction is better than later, particularly if you plant it in the ground--which means collecting it all over again at some point. A bonsai without a pot is not really a bonsai. A cut down plastic tub ain't really the same if you're aiming for bonsai, not so bad if you're not.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Yea if it's a Bloodgood, also pass.
Scrogdor
Chumono
Hack Yeah!
Omono
11 hrs? Did they know you didn't need a root ball?
Scrogdor
Chumono
It was surrounded by concrete I guess so they had to get a sledge hammer to break it out lol
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