Acer P seeds strat and germination question

[Sootys trees]

Hi guys,

I was reluctant to ask this question as I know many people may have seen it before 100s of times and I’m going against common knowledge or technique that is pretty easy to do, but I thought I’d discuss this so I can work a plan.

I have 30 JM seeds, 30 trident maple seeds, 30 hornbeam seeds and 30 larch seeds.

I know you are supposed to wait until fall before cold stratification for 90 or so days, and then sow for germination in or around early spring.

But, is it possible to do the 24 soak and cold stratification now ? (July) And sow them in 90 days or so, or when they germinate?
The plan would be to keep them in an incubator in the house with an artificial grow light all through winter once they’ve sprouted, until they are ready to go out in spring…

The reason I’m doing this is because the place I bought them from said they get ‘fresh’ seed every 3 months and if I was to order nearer fall season it’s likely they would be out of stock… so i have apparently ‘fresh’ seed right now, which I’m not sure how accurate that statement is seeing as its July, but that’s what the supplier suggests …

They’d sprout around October if the 90 day stratification was successful, and then I’d try to grow them as I suggested inside a warm room with artificial light and light from a south facing window. Then put them outside soon as late frosts are gone…

What do you think ?

Also if this is a silly idea and I’m to wait until later, how is the best way to store these seeds please ?

Joe

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Of course, I do this every year to give my seedlings a head start on spring

Where did you get your trident seeds?

'fresh' seed every 3 months is suspicious as trees produce seed seasonally.

Edit: make sure you add a fan as air circulation is important to help prevent fungus

 

[Sootys trees]

Of course, I do this every year to give my seedlings a head start on spring

Where did you get your trident seeds?

'fresh' seed every 3 months is suspicious as trees produce seed seasonally.

Edit: make sure you add a fan as air circulation is important to help prevent fungus

Great to hear this !

So you start the cold stratification around this time of year and then sow them?
How do you protect / grow them before putting them outside ?

All the seeds where from ‘yugen bonsai’ in the uk, they are a reputable company and I’ve had success this year with black pine, giant sequoia and dawn redwood, many have sprouted and are doing great, so I’m not putting them down at all, I suppose if they were picked fresh and are stored correctly then they are right in saying they are fresh ? I don’t know though
Maybe they are import ? But then I don’t know where in the world they’d be picked right now…

I will add a fan thank you for the heads up, I’m thinking a mini green house will be needed now to accommodate that…

A brief outline of what you do would be great if you have time ? I’m in the uk too

 

[RoadManDenDron]

if required I cold strat in the fridge and aim to be planting end of Sep/ early Oct

I use a grow tent with a big professional full spectrum LED light that once germinated the seedlings have 18 hours on.

I have seeds due to germinate under a smaller light but that's on 24hrs a day so whenever they germinate they are not stretching for light.

and a fan to circulate air around the tent, you don't want it like hurricane force at your seedlings but you want to see gentle movement in all the leaves.

A simple max min thermo/hygrometer is very useful I aim for 40-60% RH

it all comes down to the light you can provide, with my set up i get good growth with tight internodes so I'm able to feed and supplement my seedlings early without them getting leggy

Be very careful in windows as they can be much colder than the rest of the room during winter

I was asking about the seeds as I thought I had tridents from a UK company (not this company) and I think the leaves look more like amur maple, I know at least one other person in the same situation.

 

[Sootys trees]

if required I cold strat in the fridge and aim to be planting end of Sep/ early Oct

I use a grow tent with a big professional full spectrum LED light that once germinated the seedlings have 18 hours on.

I have seeds due to germinate under a smaller light but that's on 24hrs a day so whenever they germinate they are not stretching for light.

and a fan to circulate air around the tent, you don't want it like hurricane force at your seedlings but you want to see gentle movement in all the leaves.

A simple max min thermo/hygrometer is very useful I aim for 40-60% RH

it all comes down to the light you can provide, with my set up i get good growth with tight internodes so I'm able to feed and supplement my seedlings early without them getting leggy

Be very careful in windows as they can be much colder than the rest of the room during winter

I was asking about the seeds as I thought I had tridents from a UK company (not this company) and I think the leaves look more like amur maple, I know at least one other person in the same situation.

Sounds good regarding cold stratification,

Also sounds like a big investment did this set up cost a lot ?

A light, tent and accessories isn’t out the question for me as I’m growing so many cuttings as well, they can go in there too perhaps.

Would 1 or 2 t5 led lamps provide enough light if very close ? I’m assuming the wattage needs to be pretty high ? And Lux or lumens ?

Regarding temp, moisture, air and heat I’ll look into that and provide etc

Amur maple has much larger leaves doesn’t it ? I’m sure time will tell, I’ve never grown either.
Can only hope

 

[penumbra]

This is too much work for an uncertain future. I have tried it and somewhat succeeded with small quantities of seeds, but it is really not worth the time and space required for a dubious outcome IMO. I find it more prudent, with higher success rates and a whole lot less work, to work within the seasons. I would refrigerate the seeds dry, and then stratify in October or November. IMO it also results in healthier seedlings.

 

[Sootys trees]

This is too much work for an uncertain future. I have tried it and somewhat succeeded with small quantities of seeds, but it is really not worth the time and space required for a dubious outcome IMO. I find it more prudent, with higher success rates and a whole lot less work, to work within the seasons. I would refrigerate the seeds dry, and then stratify in October or November. IMO it also results in healthier seedlings.

Fair point, how did the plants do when you put them outside in spring ? Did most live or are any alive still now ?

The seedlings would most definitely be best outside in their own habitat, but would be great to hear of any experiences and comparisons for both methods.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

My grow light is 34530LM (by 4x2ft) at just under 200w, with a max PPFD at 12" of 1226,

it cost about 300quid brand new

You can pick tents up quite reasonable actually about 50 quid

I got started more as a bit of fun during the winter and I really don't think it's that much work, every few days I spray with water or nutrients, and I check a couple times a day mostly because I want to than because I have to.

 

[Sootys trees]

My grow light is 34530LM (by 4x2ft) at just under 200w, with a max PPFD at 12" of 1226,

it cost about 300quid brand new

You can pick tents up quite reasonable actually about 50 quid

I got started more as a bit of fun during the winter and I really don't think it's that much work, every few days I spray with water or nutrients, and I check a couple times a day mostly because I want to than because I have to.

That’s a nice bit of kit

I’ve gone from choosing a light to justifying bothering at all,

I’ve read seedlings need around a 75-150 watt lamp that puts out 2-3000 lumens and 45-6500 kelvins, the higher numbers being better.

An LED with these specs is quite affordable, regular misting as needed and a fan for air movement would most likely produce a plant ready for the outdoors come spring.

Being inside the plant is warmer too, even warmer than early spring, and even mid summer looking at the weather in the uk at the moment…

It’s not as though the plant would be inside indefinitely, just starting it off for the outside later on.

When you put them outside in spring, do any suffer from shock at all? Or do most just grow like any other outdoor tree ?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

It won't do any harm to ease them into the sun but being maples they will likely be pretty protected from the sun anyway so nothing to worry about

i think it helps in the UK, my normal outdoor seedlings were so much slower than my indoor that I put them under lights too before getting them back outside, when the weather is better the plants then take off,

If you have enough seeds there is no harm in doing a test and seeing how results compare,

I foliar feed weekly and no other misting has been necessary.

As long as they are outside for summer and autumn they are prepared for winter

 

[Sootys trees]

It won't do any harm to ease them into the sun but being maples they will likely be pretty protected from the sun anyway so nothing to worry about

i think it helps in the UK, my normal outdoor seedlings were so much slower than my indoor that I put them under lights too before getting them back outside, when the weather is better the plants then take off,

If you have enough seeds there is no harm in doing a test and seeing how results compare,

I foliar feed weekly and no other misting has been necessary.

As long as they are outside for summer and autumn they are prepared for winter

I suppose the controlled conditions can help to begin with

I know there’s a lot of seasoned growers that don’t rate the process but then there’s lots of experienced people that do this year after year

Seeing as I need a better light for clones anyway and the seeds are less than 10p each, I’m not losing anything and I’m betting they’ll be successful so should be fun !

Exactly , as you said it’s a good kick start or extended growing season which a seedling might benefit from, as long as my cats don’t have a nibble they should be fine