A Ficus and a Confession

Redwood Ryan

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I've gotta be honest, I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to styling trees. Some of you probably know this is true from work I've done to trees before I sell them.

This is a Ficus virens that I bought a month or two ago. Here is how it looked:
20170412_203336.jpg

Today I repotted it and defoliated it.
20170528_151456.jpg

Looks rough, right? I tried to give it a first styling but failed. I tried to wire it but failed because my wiring was far too unacceptable.

It's truly frustrating when you're this far into the hobby and still have no idea what you're actually doing. I have downloaded Colin Lewis's wiring videos so that's something I'll start.

For now, I'm frustrated.
 

sorce

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I would almost clip and grow it...

I like the branch angles.

I'd smart prune it for branch sizing.
Probly down to one or 2 of the closest buds or nodes even.

Bro....you know you don't have to smoke weed anymore...
Reap the Bennys!
Health consciously!

Sorce
 

BrianBay9

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Looks like it's begging to be a broom style. Can't say I've ever seen a ficus broom, but hey....why not?
 

Anthony

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Ryan,

https://www.google.tt/search?q=Ficu...=1093&bih=530&dpr=1.25#tbm=isch&q=Ficus+trees

Choose 10 that you like [ hint, look for the very mature ]

Get some very good tracing paper, and a 9b pencil. Place tracing paper on your screen and gently trace the main shapes/
Canopy, root, branches [ no more than 6 ]

Come back here, put up the image and the tracing,
We can discuss the images.

Do you need to be shown how to ?
Good Day
Anthony
 

Jeremy

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Thin the upper structure out, cut the upper branches back hard and let the lower branches run. Virens will reduce leaves but I would still aim for a larger tree.
 

sorce

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Thin the upper structure out, cut the upper branches back hard and let the lower branches run. Virens will reduce leaves but I would still aim for a larger tree.

Yup.

I'd probably delete these 2 now.
aviary-image-1496138318482.jpeg

And Ryan...

What you May lack in design...

You totally make up for with an eye for good material.

Which...somehow...is the same thing!

That video is gonna help mad with the "do".
Apply. Apply. Apply.

Sorce
 

Redwood Ryan

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I'd say broom was what I was initially shooting for with this tree. When I tried to wire the branches I just couldn't get a good pattern. My loops weren't even and it just looked bad.

I tried studying the branches to see which could be removed and didn't get anywhere. Other than the obvious clusters of branches, I left most on. This tree is just kinda here, waiting for something to jump out at me...
 

GrimLore

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I tried studying the branches to see which could be removed and didn't get anywhere. Other than the obvious clusters of branches, I left most on.

I noticed two things here;

The plant is budding new leaf so it is actively growing.
The Inner thin growth needs to be cut out.

That being said I would cut out all of the fine inner branches soon. Then in a week or two when the remaining branches are back budding I would cut them down in the shape of a wide flat bottom dome, not a broom. The new growth will flourish from that point on and will require another thinning out of the interior but at that point you will have some new branches you will want to keep to fill out the dome but not overcrowd it.
Wiring in the Fall "if needed" (I suspect it won't need it)... Wiring now while it is growing will just result in a headache - the wire will be tearing into the plant in two weeks and require removal and at that point not have set any branches. Using guy wire techniques in combination with fish tank tubing to protect branches would be an effective option and can be easily moved a tiny bit every few days to the left and right, They can be left on for long periods of time allowing these rapid growers to harden off and set.
The extra time with those nice roots buried would also allow you to spread them and fatten up.

That Ficus was a decent find and can be pretty darn nice in a few short seasons. Styling is a forever process and you are off to a good start ;)

Grimmy
 

Dav4

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Being proficient at wiring and styling come with practice... lots and lots of practice. The more trees you wire, the more trees you work on and style... and the more nicely wired and styled trees you see here on line or in person at a show or collection, the greater your experience will be and the better your own work will become.
 
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Giga

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Wiring and styling come with practice... lots and lots of practice. The more trees you wire, the more trees you work on and style... and the more nicely wired and styled trees you see here on line or in person at a show or collection, the greater your experience will be and the better your own work will become.

so true, with over 50 tree's I got through a about 200$ of wire a season, maybe more I don't keep track that well. It also help to watch LOTS of youvids and go to shows. Lots oh ah-ha moments
 

music~maker

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I'd say broom was what I was initially shooting for with this tree. When I tried to wire the branches I just couldn't get a good pattern. My loops weren't even and it just looked bad.

I tried studying the branches to see which could be removed and didn't get anywhere. Other than the obvious clusters of branches, I left most on. This tree is just kinda here, waiting for something to jump out at me...
Sometimes the best thing to do is let it grow in for the season, then shorten the branches, and let it recover until next. Rather than trying to find a pattern or make it perfect, just focus on adding a little motion to each branch. As it grows in and things thicken up, whatever you did the previous season or two will usually begin to look natural, and what doesn't becomes a target for future removal.

Take it slow. I was right where you were at one point. After 10 years of growing bonsai trees!

I came to the conclusion that I actually had no idea how good trees (and especially trunks) were developed, and so I set out to learn. That was about 12 years ago, when I bought a house and started growing outdoors. I only have one tree from before that reboot. I re-built my entire collection from scratch, and a good portion of it started as cheap nursery stock that I bought to practice trunk and branch development.

The main thing I learned is patience. Do a little work, let the tree recover. Do some more, let it recover some more. Wait long periods of recovery time between major work. For something like you have here, I'd just wire some motion into the branches (even just some of them will make a difference), and then just leave it alone for a while. Just worry about making one branch at a time a little bit better. If you're not sure what to do, just wait and see how it develops. Sometimes a few months of growth will give you an entirely different perspective on things.

Focus on letting the tree exist at the scale you currently have it at. Maybe practice ramification training on the new growth after it hardens off. But let it grow and keep some of it's new growth. Everything must grow or die. For something immature like this, only make major moves every 2-3 years or so. In between, just keep it pruned to shape, while allowing it to actually grow out. You can learn a lot from truly watching your trees grow.

Scale it up, then scale it down. Add motion along the way. Lather, rinse, repeat. That is literally the best thing I've learned in the past dozen years.
 

StoneCloud

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I understand your pain! Sometimes it clicks for me and sometimes it doesn't. I've wired trees and reset the branch 5 or 6 times by the end of the day, just not being able to get the branch just right. Sometimes it takes a few days for me.

Sometimes it takes all that to realize this is not the right branch, and it shows me that I should remove it.

What has always helped me when I get blocked like that is to leave the tree. I walk away and go and look at the rest of my trees and do some work elsewhere. Then I go inside and look at pictures upon pictures of trees. Mostly in nature, then I look at bonsai trees.

Many times I've looked at different species on my bench only to see a curve, shape or movement that open's my eyes to what I want in the tree I was blocked with.

May I suggest (and I know you don't want a million trees lol) to get a few small ficus similar in canopy to this one and just practice wiring the hell out of them?

You have a good eye though, that I can agree with as everyone that has been here longer has said. Having that "eye" is about 85.46% of the battle to the infamous level of "perfection." :cool::cool:
 

choppychoppy

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2017-06-01 11.26.39.jpg

So you can thin some of the upper structure and wire down some of the other branches. The branches should be pretty flexible.
 

Anthony

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View at 3 times the greatest distance ------------ height or width or other.
Then all you can see is the form, no details.
 

StoneCloud

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@Anthony Just to make sure I understand correctly:

If the tree is 12 inches tall (it's greatest distance of lxwxh) then I should view the tree from 36 inches or 3 feet distance from the tree? Thanks!
 

Josh88

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Hey there Ryan. As someone who is a few years into bonsai but often feels like a total beginner, I know where you are coming from! For me, I found that getting some cheap nursery material to practice on was the way to go. When I started practicing on nice material I felt awful when I made bad styling choices, or accidentally broke a branch, or straight up killed a tree. This is an art form that like any other, you can read and read and read, filling your head with valuable information, but it takes lots of hands on and doing over and over again to get good and to really see the effects of your choices. As I am also just a novice, my advice will obviously be different from more experienced practitioners, but hopefully will be helpful since we are probably at a more similar level of experience. At this phase of my learning, when I start to make design choices, I begin by eliminating problems rather than trying to pick an end goal. I get rid of branches where too many are coming from the same spot, things that are out of proportion, anything going straight up, down, or crossing the trunk. Things that will have to be done regardless, and will totally change the image I am looking at. I try to take in what kinds of changes each of these choices makes in the appearance of the tree in terms of adding negative space, or how the change draws my attention to other aspects of the tree. Once you have made some space there is room to make more changes, and you can decide if you want to wire existing branches to fill in those holes, grow secondary branches into those areas, or if that new negative space is now part of your design. Just keep practicing, and know that there are plenty of us out here that face the same challenges. That's why a lot of us spend so much time on this site! We want to learn how to make the best choices possible, and don't want to learn only from our own mistakes, but from the mistakes others have made in their journeys and the lessons they have learned. That being said, we will make plenty of errors along the way, as that is just a part of getting good at anything. If we pay attention to the effects of our mistakes we can learn a lot with every success and every error. Keep up the good work and enjoy the journey. This is an art of continual growth, not one with a final destination.
 

Anthony

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@StoneCloud ,

yes, it's an old painting practice, knocks out details and allows you to see the tree as a whole.
Remember to also turn the tree as you look, it is also know as ------ sculpture in the round.

You should also if possible view trees in nature the same way.

Always walk around get as sense of volume and obviously depth.

See now my brother-in-law is training you to be a painter / sculptor.:):cool::eek::eek::D

Also -


Do as a pencil thick [ seedling ] bend to an informal upright, place wire branches and take some
clay, place on thinly.
Attach to a block of wood for stability.

Now "grow" the tree. Start at the base add roots, thicker trunk and branches as you go up
the tree.

Wanna come back and show what you did ?

Optional - add on the mass for leaves.

Done correctly, this explains how a curve disappears as the tree thickens itself and you get
to practice rapidly, as the tree grows.
Good Luck.
Good Day
Anthony
 

StoneCloud

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@Anthony Cheers!!! I thought that is what you meant wanted to make sure.

I've never formally studied art, though I did take art classes in college, and study myself online via research/videos/etc.

But with my trees I do what you are suggesting a lot. besides using my turntable, I'll move the trees slightly on my bench as well and take in a different angle for the day see how I feel about it etc....

Thank you for the video link. The clay idea is great as well. Need to make some time to do that
 
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