2 Parson's Junipers, same treatment, 1 fine, 1 dead (dying?)

[pauljc]

Hello all, newby here. I'm in central Florida. This is my first attempt at bonsai, or any type of plant care at all so completely in the dark. Photos show my 2 newly purchased junipers in January (1 gallon pot) and first trimming done mid January. Each has received the exact same treatment from day one. Same sun exposure, same watering, same fertilizer (small amount late Feb), same amount of root removal (about 1/3 in late Feb after browning occured). The last pic shows their current condition after only 2 months. No wiring or anything else has been done, trying to take things slow. No bugs or mold etc visible. Have been kept off the ground the whole time. Completely puzzled why 1 is doing fine but the other has died or is slowly dying. Thanks for any ideas why or suggestions if it can be saved.

 

[Jrmcmich]

You removed roots after it was turning brown?

 

[pauljc]

Yes, mainly because of fear of them being too damp down low (overwatered?), and especially after trimming was afraid pot was too big. I also just cut the pots in half to better fit the shallower roots, rather than repotting.

 

[Empty Mountain]

Did you remove all the soil when you trimmed the roots? When the foliage gets to that colour the tree has likely been dead for weeks.

 

[Jrmcmich]

I only have couple junipers and only this year did I do some root work but was limited. Prior I had just kept alive for 2 years so limited knowledge but junipers seem fairly easy to keep alive so far for me. Assume one dead if brown too

 

[pauljc]

Did you remove all the soil when you trimmed the roots? When the foliage gets to that colour the tree has likely been dead for weeks.

Yes, when I reduced the roots by 1/3 I removed the same amount of bottom soil, which was the more wet soil.

 

[Jrmcmich]

I think I’ve read best to trim later in season? I’m going off memory as was researching that last year some before doing anything to mine. Maybe too much work at one time?

 

[Brain Treez]

If you'd done either a heavy foliage reduction OR root reduction you'd probably have been fine. Do both at the same time and it gets dicey unless you're experienced with aftercare.

 

[pauljc]

I think I’ve read best to trim later in season? I’m going off memory as was researching that last year some before doing anything to mine. Maybe too much work at one time?

I did do all the trimming at once and that's all I'd planned to do for awhile. The root reduction happened soon after the browning started, in an attempt to correct what I thought was overwatered roots. Still puzzles me why the other one is doing fine with the same care, but I'll keep an eye on it and hope it survives. I'll leave it be for now.

 

[nuttiest]

Hi Paul - those pots are unusual and I am not sure what they are for, I have asked a couple of nursery managers but no help. I think they were developed to keep things in ground contact from Phytopthora spores, or to prevent tap roots on trees that like to go through the holes.
I have never seen them used with juniper so maybe switch to something with bottom drain holes.

 

[pauljc]

Hi Paul - those pots are unusual and I am not sure what they are for, I have asked a couple of nursery managers but no help. I think they were developed to keep things in ground contact from Phytopthora spores, or to prevent tap roots on trees that like to go through the holes.
I have never seen them used with juniper so maybe switch to something with bottom drain holes.

Wow, thanks nuttiest, I never would have thought about the pots in that manner, just figured your typical generics. Plants were purchased at Lowes. I have noticed tho, that the pots do hold a little water in the bottom, keeping those lower roots on the soggy side. I don't like that, especially after removing 1/3 of the roots. I could punch some more bottom holes and/or put some inorganic soil (rocks etc) in the bottom to avoid that water. But replacing with the right pots is worth looking into. Yesterday I went ahead and cut off all the brown growth and will just keep an eye on both plants for now. Maybe the dying one will come back. Thanks for the tip!

 

[pauljc]

There is a 1" hole in the bottom of the pot, in the middle. Probably not enough for complete drainage tho. And in case anyone is wondering, these both have been kept outside only and literally side-by-side ever since purchased.

 

[Empty Mountain]

You can't completely defoliate the foliage from a juniper like you can a deciduous tree or it will die. (Un)fortunately when all the foliage gets to be that colour shown in your first post it means that the tree died a few weeks ago before the visible colour change so... I don't think you did any more damage by trimming the foliage off at this point. Hopefully your second tree is ok.

 

[pauljc]

You can't completely defoliate the foliage from a juniper like you can a deciduous tree or it will die. (Un)fortunately when all the foliage gets to be that colour shown in your first post it means that the tree died a few weeks ago before the visible colour change so... I don't think you did any more damage by trimming the foliage off at this point. Hopefully your second tree is ok.

Thanks EM. I'll chalk it up to newby over-exuberance. Juniper is my favorite bon of choice so I need to learn more about its nuances moving forward. I have done a good bit of research but still have lots to learn. It's a shame because this was my favorite of the two. I'll either replace it or just concentrate on the one.

 

[nuttiest]

There is a 1" hole in the bottom of the pot, in the middle. Probably not enough for complete drainage tho. And in case anyone is wondering, these both have been kept outside only and literally side-by-side ever since purchased.

Well if it has a center drain it is fine. It's great to see you are doing nursery stock, because if you want to get different types of juniper you can usually find them at a nursery. If you have an ace hardware near you try looking there, they have things the big box stores do not carry, and sometimes fairly mature 3 gallons.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

trying to take things slow

You need to slow down roughly 12X

especially early on when figuring things out, it is best to stick to one insult per YEAR

Also figuring out the correct time in the year to do a task is more than half the battle

Sometimes waiting for the correct timing can make the year apart tasks closer to 2 years but that's OK if it's what's best for your tree

Don't beat yourself up, keep practicing and learning

 

[pauljc]

You need to slow down roughly 12X

especially early on when figuring things out, it is best to stick to one insult per YEAR

Also figuring out the correct time in the year to do a task is more than half the battle

Sometimes waiting for the correct timing can make the year apart tasks closer to 2 years but that's OK if it's what's best for your tree

Don't beat yourself up, keep practicing and learning

12X....!!? LOL, point taken Yes, I have read that bonsai is a go slow hobby. The one insult per year is going to be a tough one to follow. I may have to buy 3-4 more of these so I have more insults to spend. Understand the timing thing, but here in Florida, the difference in seasons is minimal. We basically only have variations of summer. I have some Florida bonsai sites also that I use for guidance on such things regarding our climate etc. Thanks.

 

[pauljc]

I did expect challenges when I took on this new hobby, but never expected it to include just keeping the plants alive. Still looking forward to moving forward and learning this art.

 

[pauljc]

Well if it has a center drain it is fine. It's great to see you are doing nursery stock, because if you want to get different types of juniper you can usually find them at a nursery. If you have an ace hardware near you try looking there, they have things the big box stores do not carry, and sometimes fairly mature 3 gallons.

There is an ACE here, and yes, I like to deal locally rather than online for many things. I like to see what I'm buying, not that I'm an expert on junipers, but being a DIYer I like to decide what I buy. And here in FL there are plenty of nurseries to choose from. The issue with big box stores too...if you know what you want that's one thing, and you can find some bargains, but I don't think they are as knowledgeable about plants as maybe a family-run nursery. It's all good. Thanks.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

just keeping the plants alive.

This is at least half of the hobby, we need strong healthy plants so we get a good response to the work

Even most of the aesthetics is governed by plant health

If you were wondering 12x was because you seemed to be doing an insult a month rather than an insult a year

I completely agree, more trees is the solution to allowing each tree the time it takes to recover

Local advice is always favourable, I also really recommend joining a local club or society, members there will also be a wealth of local knowledge, a source of material and probably also soil and supplies

Best of luck moving forward!