1st time decandling JBP

[Mikea454]

Here is the set of seedlings I have. I am 100 days from the end of my growing season. I would like to grown 1 or two of these into a literati or windswept design maybe 12-16" when done and the rest I want to be shohin or mame sized. I am aware decandling will slow growth and slow trunk thickening, but these seedlings are 2-3 years old and already taller than I would like most of them and lacking branching. I also would like to do this as an experiment. So I am labeling the trees individually. Watching some of the work by Eric Schrader at Bonsaify.

I am looking for this to be a learning experience, I don't want to kill any, but I am happy to have there growth slowed to learn how they branch and backbud. Ideally there is a mix of leaving as is, cutting the candle, and removing the whole node cutting back into last years growth.

JBP-alpha
This one has 6 candles at the top and a pair of bar branches (red arrows) just below it. I was thinking of cutting this at the solid line and when the fall comes wiring one of the remaining bar branches to the apex and the other horizontal to make this my windswept design. Is this the right location to be "behind the node" and produce back budding or do I need to move to the dotted line for that effect? Alternatively should I make cuts above the node for some reason?

 

[Mikea454]

JBP - Beta
Suggestions on this one (keeping in mind I want most to be small)

 

[Mikea454]

JBP gamma
this one I wired out of season (sorry paradox) but same question as above.

 

[Mikea454]

JBP - delta
This one has two lower sets of bar branches. I was thinking of leaving this one be as it already has so many options maybe just let it thinking up. I am assuming no need to remove any needles, just wire in the Fall?

 

[Mikea454]

JBP - epsilon
I want this one to stay very small, like 2-3" pot when done. should I cut at the line or go even lower to try to get some branching at lower needle pairs?

 

[Mikea454]

JBP - eta
exact same as above I want it as small and branched as possible.

 

[Mikea454]

JBP -zeta
I also want this small and compact, 4 inch pot maximum. Do I cut the solid, dotted, or dashed lines? what is the expected outcome of each of those cuts?

I'll post updates if anyone else is interested in the outcomes.

Thank you all for advice.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Decandling is a technique used to reduce needle size and internode length of branches on finished trees. At this stage, the focus should be on correcting nebari flaws, building trunk shape and taper, and planning for the proper placement of eventual primary branches.

 

[Mikea454]

Decandling is a technique used to reduce needle size and internode length of branches on finished trees. At this stage, the focus should be on correcting nebari flaws, building trunk shape and taper, and planning for the proper placement of eventual primary branches.

As always appreciate the advice (and your collection is beautiful - I love the trees you post).
I have been having trouble finding info for things I am growing from seed and purchased young seedlings. (not to mention all the conflicting info out there ie pinching)

The Bonsai Today Pines book seems to suggest the "clip and grow" method for young seedlings - they suggest cutting back the apical branch to just above a side branch so the side branch becomes the new apical..... is this not right either?

Do I not want to prune any of these to try to promote branching? what time of the year should I prune and where should I cut? Is there another resource you can direct me too so I don't take up too much of your time? (I just purchased about 10 books including the pine book, they arrived this week, but obviously haven't read them all yet).

TY!

 

[Srt8madness]

Candidly, several of these look past shohin size unless some grafting is eventually done. Delta looks to be the best IMO, I would feed heavily and let it grow, up potting in fall.

Eric Schrader (sp?) seems to be the go-to for shohin pine from seed. Also under the contest forums, 6 year pine from seed, is a great resource for how to start shohin pines.

 

[Srt8madness]

In my experience growing pines from seed, they will branch on their own if fed heavily and needles not removed.

 

[JeffS73]

One of the advantages of having a few is you can do some experiments and see what works for you.

Personally, I like to cut young JBP to promote back budding. Even just wiring can stimulate budding. I am always thinking: how tall is this tree going to be? How thick? What height first branch? I try to get movement and a number of sacrifice branches low down. If you cut a shoot, then get two shoots, you get a sacrifice and a new trunk section. Movement from the cut will be angular, complimenting wired movement which flows.

If you cut any part of a new shoot, you will get one or more buds at the base of that shoot. Then, if there are needles at the cut, you will get buds at the end of the shoot. You may also get more buds further back down the shoot. If there are no needles on the cut shoot, the length of shoot you leave will affect the vigour of the new buds at the base.

If you cut an apical shoot you will often get budding further back, 2, 3 years down.

When you cut is determined by your growing season - too early and second flush might be too long; no problem, you can trim it. Too late and you won't get a full second flush, which can leave you with awkward growth.

My growing season in the UK is short, for example I decandle in late May, which is quite early, this affects timing and general JBP vigour
.
Also, don't cut (or just a little) if you've repotted, a young tree needs energy to respond well to bonsai techniques.

That's a bit of what I learnt over the last 6 years or so. You need to do it and document it.

 

[Mikea454]

One of the advantages of having a few is you can do some experiments and see what works for you.

Personally, I like to cut young JBP to promote back budding. Even just wiring can stimulate budding. I am always thinking: how tall is this tree going to be? How thick? What height first branch? I try to get movement and a number of sacrifice branches low down. If you cut a shoot, then get two shoots, you get a sacrifice and a new trunk section. Movement from the cut will be angular, complimenting wired movement which flows.

If you cut any part of a new shoot, you will get one or more buds at the base of that shoot. Then, if there are needles at the cut, you will get buds at the end of the shoot. You may also get more buds further back down the shoot. If there are no needles on the cut shoot, the length of shoot you leave will affect the vigour of the new buds at the base.

If you cut an apical shoot you will often get budding further back, 2, 3 years down.

When you cut is determined by your growing season - too early and second flush might be too long; no problem, you can trim it. Too late and you won't get a full second flush, which can leave you with awkward growth.

My growing season in the UK is short, for example I decandle in late May, which is quite early, this affects timing and general JBP vigour
.
Also, don't cut (or just a little) if you've repotted, a young tree needs energy to respond well to bonsai techniques.

That's a bit of what I learnt over the last 6 years or so. You need to do it and document it.

Thank you for all of that, first avg frost for me is in October, so we are about 100 days out now. Only the one with wire was touched this year, and I did no root work on it, just put it in a bigger pot. Any idea what the predicted effect would be if I cut the solid or dotted line today on the first tree (alpha)?

 

[Mikea454]

Candidly, several of these look past shohin size unless some grafting is eventually done. Delta looks to be the best IMO, I would feed heavily and let it grow, up potting in fall.

Eric Schrader (sp?) seems to be the go-to for shohin pine from seed. Also under the contest forums, 6 year pine from seed, is a great resource for how to start shohin pines.

Fair smart, I have 5 more JBP seedlings, 8 eastern pine, and about 20 nlue.spruce from seed this spring. guess I can try again for shohin. I still want a few more branches to work with on these guys

 

[Mikea454]

I have a bunch, looking to experiment and document results