Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I have noticed that with Mugo cultivars as well. It seems there are some things you cannot shrink.
Pines With the Shortest Needles
- Thread starter TobiasB
- Start date
Yes, just as some Japanese Maples always have long internodes and/or big leaves, same thing can happen with pines.
With JBP, the " Thunderhead" cultivar seems to have really fat candles. I avoid it.
YukiShiro
Chumono
First world problems 
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
I would advise regular scots pine. Short needles, relatively easy and available.
TobiasB
Sapling
Thanks everyone for the replies (even though arguing was not neccesary!!). This really cleared my head a lot. I will search some nurseries for the Pinus Mugo and will try to find a yamadori Pinus Sylvestris in spring. I assume that spring would be the best time to collect pines?
Thanks again for all the replies!
Thanks again for all the replies!
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I think now may a good time to collect p. sylvestris. Similarly now is a good time to repot p. mugo. IMHO, the key is that the year's new growth is fully extended and hardened.
Winter hardening (freeze tolerance) comes from the repeated light nightly freezes of fall. You just need to be sure that roots will have some time to recover before first frost.
- If your climate is one that can have sudden hard freezes, you could have trouble and maybe should choose spring instead.
- On the other hand, if you have warm spells followed by hard freezes in the spring, now (since the summer solstice or shortly thereafter) would be better.
TobiasB
Sapling
I see, I did collect a Pinus Sylvestris in beginning of June because it was growing next the a wall that was going to get painted and it would have been removed either way. It did not survive, but it also had very few roots of what I could see, as I did not bare root it I could not see all. I will wait for some rainy week, and try with some Pinus Sylvestris now, if it works fine maybe next year I could have some good time to find a great specimen and by then I would at least have some experience of collecting Pinus Sylvestris. It would be a shame to find a great specimen now, just to kill it.
Thanks for your reply!
Wilson
Masterpiece
I am curious Adair, I have a yatsubusa pine I am checking out to buy. It will be a bigger sized tree, are they manageable?
A yatsubusa what kind of Pine? That means “dwarf” mostly.
Wilson
Masterpiece
JBP yatsubusa, short internodes, fat buds, strong needles. The grower I know prefers regular JBP, but I enjoy to have some variety to see the different growth patterns.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Look for the 1" needle J.B.pine, I believe Nellie from
Africa got a few when she went to Japan.
Good Day
Anthony
Africa got a few when she went to Japan.
Good Day
Anthony
Bavarian Raven
Mame
Lodgepole pine, Pinus contorta, can take Sweden level of cold (grows well in the mountains and northern stretches of Canada). You'd have to start from seed or very young seedlings though. As the name suggests it naturally (usually) grows straight and tall.
Another two species of pine that's probably do well in Sweden would be Limber Pine and Whitebark Pine. You'd have to hunt those down in a nursery or order seeds. Both grow in the subalpine of western Canada and can take very cold conditions. These guys naturally grow more contorted.
Hope this helps. Cheers.
Another two species of pine that's probably do well in Sweden would be Limber Pine and Whitebark Pine. You'd have to hunt those down in a nursery or order seeds. Both grow in the subalpine of western Canada and can take very cold conditions. These guys naturally grow more contorted.
Hope this helps. Cheers.
It’s the “fat buds” I don’t like. Sure, I want a strong, healthy tree, but when it comes to refinement time, I want to have small twigs and branches out at the tips. Varieties like “Thunderhead” are just too coarse. Unless you are going to make a really big bonsai. (3 or 4 feet). But even then, regular JBP still works.
Lots of people like Kotobuki JBP because it has naturally short needles. Again, I don’t care for it’s grwth habits. Needle length on JBP is easy to control once you learn how. So, I don’t consider needle length as part of my selection criteria. Needle SHAPE, yes. You don’t want twisty needles, or ones that curl, or flop. I look for bark quality, nebari, internode lengths, trunk movement, taper, scars, health, etc.
It’s a shame but I’ve seen people pass over great JBP with potential because the needles were too long.
Giga
Masterpiece
Why not try loblolly pine?
Dorky_gearhead
Shohin
I' curious, why would needles that short be a problem? Not enough cells that contain chlorophyll to properly nourish the tree?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
In Southern Cal, if they refer to JBP as "jatsubusa" it is normally JBP "kotobuki yatsubusa". The cultivar came from a witches broom on a kotobuki - buds back like crazy but has softer, lighter green needles than kotobuki.
Here is the parent tree. You can see the kotobuki foliage on the lower part, and the much tighter kotobuki yatsubusa foliage of the witches broom. I think this photo may be 30-40 years old? I got it from a site in Japan when I was trying to find more info on the cultivar.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Also, there is a big difference in appearance between two-needle, three-needle, and five needle pines. Of the two-needle pines, a mugo or dwarf black pine will probably give you the shortest needles.
Other species no one has mentioned are the bristlecone pines - one of which is my personal favorite of the five-needle species (Pinus aristata). There are some really dwarf Japanese white pines out there as well, but stay away from Eastern or Western white pines (American) which have extremely long needles.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I feel it is necessary to remind you guys that the length of needles can depend on what time of year you are taking the measurements and pictures. They may look really short now but what do they look like in the fall?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I thought we were talking about natural needle length, not needle length after a late decandling.
