Pine Air Layering Questions

JoeR

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Hello,

Recently, I had gone on a quest to scout out some new trees to practice with on my large, forested property. The majority of native trees in my area are some species of unusable long needle pines, holly, and several maple species. After little exploring, I came up with a few canidates that have great potential. I found some beautiful short needled pine trees, one about 2, 2 and a half feet tall and two others about 4 feet tall. The 4' ones have beatiful taper, are very vigorous, have great possibilities with branches, and short needles. But, they're just too tall! Is it possible to air layer the trunk? I have heard it is possible with jbp, but takes a very long time, which I am okay with because I also found a perfect juniper and a maple I can work on now. If it is possible, would I have to wait until next spring to do so, and what strength of root hormone would I use? We have a very long growing season here, but I just dont think its enough time anyway. Any help is greatly appreciated, this newbie needs advice!

Thanks, Joe

Ps, I cannot Identify the pines, and I am just experimenting with them so I am not really concerned with accidently killing the trees. I would post pictures, but the forest around them makes it impossible to really focus on the trees to clearly identify them.
 
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Are there any lower branches? Maybe you could solve the "too tall" problem by chopping them back?
 

GrimLore

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Honest I would not try your first air layer attempt on pines when they are usable/collectable as is. I would collect a few including the 4 foot one and grow them in boxes 2 - 3 years until you know what they are, how to keep them alive, and what their natural growth patterns are like before working them. In "general" pines do not layer well and could take two full seasons to succeed. I bet if you collected them in those two years you would have a plan to reduce them in size to your liking either way. Meantime try one or two air layers on some of the other field stock as a learning experience.

Grimmy
 

QuintinBonsai

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http://muranakabonsainursery.blogspot.com/2012/04/japanese-black-pine-air-layers.html

Keep in mind that George makes it look so easy. I've attempted his method on several nursery bought JBPs, and they all ended in failures. Pines are known for being notoriously difficult to layer. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I would try to find one that has very low branches, or shoots near the base, and do a trunk chop. Get a picture of the needles, and the bark. Someone here may be able to identify the species.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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It is not at all unusual for a 4 foot tall pine to be collected, and by the time it makes it to its first show it has been reduced to less than 2 feet. There are many, many tricks to shorten, reduce and tighten up collected & nursery trees.

But if you do want to try air layering pines because it is a fun technique to master.

Out of maybe 10 attempts, I successfully got 2 JBP to produce air layers. Both of my successful air layers took 2 years. The first year to callous the layer. Only in the second year did the callous produce roots. The 2 successes became very nice trees with good nebari. Really well worth the effort. The younger the segment of trunk is where you try to get roots, the higher your chances of success. - my successful layers were branches only 3 or 4 years old.

I left an air layer on a P. parvifolia for 4 years, each year treating with hormones and re-wounding the callous in spring of year 3. It ended in failure year 4.

BUT just because the odds of success are less than 100% doesn't mean it is not worth trying.

Given that you are in NC, if your short needle trees turn out to be P. rigida, pitch pine, because they bud back on older wood well, there is a good chance they will also air layer easier than most. P. rigida is in the same sub-family of pines as JBP. It should behave similarly.

So if you try it, plan on leaving the air layer in place for 2 years before separating it. Since the donor tree is in the ground, don't worry about the cold in winter, the roots probably won't sprout until next year anyway.
 

JoeR

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Thanks for the imput. I think I am just going to leave the trees alone for now. In hopes of finding a younger one, I will eventually search the rest of my property for potensai. I actually have found a juniper of some type with great potential on my sister in laws property in which I collected. A shame I cant work on it until it recovers!
 

GrimLore

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Recently, I had gone on a quest to scout out some new trees to practice with on my large, forested property. The majority of native trees in my area are some species of unusable long needle pines, holly, and several maple species.

Holly, most Maples as well as most Pines are useable - Collected at the correct time of year you are probably ignoring some pretty darn good material...

Grimmy
 

JoeR

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Holly, most Maples as well as most Pines are useable - Collected at the correct time of year you are probably ignoring some pretty darn good material...

Grimmy

The maples here are usable, I just havent found one I thought had enough potential. I had no idea hollys are usable! There are some hollys here with great potential. Many of them have odd bends and good taper. I might have to scout some out then. How do you work on such a prickly tree?
 

GrimLore

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The maples here are usable, I just havent found one I thought had enough potential. I had no idea hollys are usable! There are some hollys here with great potential. Many of them have odd bends and good taper. I might have to scout some out then. How do you work on such a prickly tree?

Look at the Maples closer - I bet you have a LOT of branches that could fetch you an awesome air layer in the Spring if they are to big for your taste. ;)

Holly is no less hard on your skin as many Pines and other plants. Many use those ten packs of toss away rubber gloves. I use Beer :p

Grimmy

Just a "tip": If you are not sure about a plants potential use Google Image search and for example search for photos of Holly Bonsai, or any type, you will be surprised.
 
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sorce

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Joe.

I really hope you decide to start some layers. Sounds like a great opportunity.

I agree with Grimmy. But alcohol thins the blood! I would use a plant! Lol

Sorce
 

YukiShiro

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Out of maybe 10 attempts, I successfully got 2 JBP to produce air layers. Both of my successful air layers took 2 years. The first year to callous the layer. Only in the second year did the callous produce roots. The 2 successes became very nice trees with good nebari. Really well worth the effort. The younger the segment of trunk is where you try to get roots, the higher your chances of success. - my successful layers were branches only 3 or 4 years old.

I air-layered 5-6 year old branches and successfully removed them in one season(+- 4-5 months). out of the 5 layers made 3 took, I still have them growing out in training pots. one calloused but did not produce any roots, other one just dried up and died on the tree 1 month after I made the layers

Air-layering a black pine successfully is not very difficult, try it, just use normal bonsai soil in the layer rather than moss

Kind regards
Herman
 

thumblessprimate1

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I air-layered 5-6 year old branches and successfully removed them in one season(+- 4-5 months). out of the 5 layers made 3 took, I still have them growing out in training pots. one calloused but did not produce any roots, other one just dried up and died on the tree 1 month after I made the layers

Air-layering a black pine successfully is not very difficult, try it, just use normal bonsai soil in the layer rather than moss

Kind regards
Herman

Do you use the tourniquet or ring bark method Also, are you saying that the use of bonsai soil in air layering improves success of rooting better than moss?
 

JoeR

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How well do hollys take to air layering? Is it too late in the season to try them? Here in NC, we have a very long growing season so I dont think time is an issue unless they are slow growers.
 
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MichaelS

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I've layered white, black and corky bark pines. It is not difficult. The important thing is that young trees (less than 10 years or so) root much more easily than old. Make sure the layer is completely water tight and stays that way. A wet layer is a failed layer. The best time for me is late winter but before any activity in the tree. It usually takes between 3 and 6 months. (less than 1 inch diameter)
 
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