Intelligent conversation of the Literati

Dorian Fourie

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I have a small Snow Rose - Serissa Foetida that I bought from a shop just because I liked the trunk movement. This type of serissa is now for having thin trunks that do not get very much thicker.

Over the last year I have been looking at it more and more and thinking of changing it to a very small literati.

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So last weekend I cut back a few of the branches and pushed the trunk more upright. I did not take off too many branches as it is still mid winter here and will look at it again in Spring when I will look at wiring it too.
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It has beautiful small double petal white flowers too.
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Definitely something different in my eyes to do a small flowering literati but then if I do not try, I will never know.
 

LeonardB

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Which brings me to my other "Literati" a celtis sinensis. I got this from a guy who was getting rid of his stock in 2015. He said he had been fooling around with this.

I liked the idea and because I had taken quite a few trees from him, he threw this one is for free.
View attachment 134294

I currently have it in a colander on the ground just growing away. When I re-potted it, I changed the angle so that it was slightly more upright.
I have done a basic wiring to start the structure of the canopy. We had a massive hail storm and it shredded the tree hence the reason it looks so bare.
1.
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2.
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3.
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4.
View attachment 134293

My feeling is that pic 1 is the right front and that I will need to make sure the cascading canopy moves forward. My worry is the arch at the top that looks too rounded but I believe with some raffia and maybe some thick wire, I can work on making the bend more sharp and non uniform

I am using one of Walter Pall's Literatis as inspiration and something to try and achieve.
View attachment 134295

Thoughts?
Dorian,
I saw the same Pall literati and during a class in the spring everyone encouraged me to develop this tree I brought. The first photo is just pruned after collection ( in February ) and the next is after the class in May. The last photo is what it looks like today ( seems to be recovering nicely ). Thoughts?
 

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Dorian Fourie

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Dorian,
I saw the same Pall literati and during a class in the spring everyone encouraged me to develop this tree I brought. The first photo is just pruned after collection ( in February ) and the next is after the class in May. The last photo is what it looks like today ( seems to be recovering nicely ). Thoughts?
Hi Leonard.

Great tree and what amazing material. I like what you have achieved with it so far.

I take it that you are taking the photos from your chosen front. My concern would be the circled area in the following photo. From the pic it just looks too straight and takes away from the amazing trunk movement. Is there anyway you would be able to put more movement in it?
Tree.jpg
 

LeonardB

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Hi Leonard.

Great tree and what amazing material. I like what you have achieved with it so far.

I take it that you are taking the photos from your chosen front. My concern would be the circled area in the following photo. From the pic it just looks too straight and takes away from the amazing trunk movement. Is there anyway you would be able to put more movement in it?
View attachment 153918
Dorian,
Good observation and I had the same concern. The problem is the deadwood connected to the live vein along the length of that section. I want it to stay intact to maintain the integrity of the whole, but am concerned bending the trunk will fracture the deadwood ( or certainly disrupt the look of it ) because it is so rigid due to severe scaring in the back of that section.
My thought is to try the bend in the spring along that section mid point to bring the branch around to the front ( needs more recovery time after the spring pruning ). Before that ( I don't know how long since I have never done before, but read it can be done carefully ) I want to wrap the whole section with wet towel ( or rafia? ) to try and make the deadwood supple again. I thought to practice on dead twigs about the same size before hand to develop technique. Have you attempted anything similar?
Regards,
Leonard
 

Dorian Fourie

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Dorian,
Good observation and I had the same concern. The problem is the deadwood connected to the live vein along the length of that section. I want it to stay intact to maintain the integrity of the whole, but am concerned bending the trunk will fracture the deadwood ( or certainly disrupt the look of it ) because it is so rigid due to severe scaring in the back of that section.
My thought is to try the bend in the spring along that section mid point to bring the branch around to the front ( needs more recovery time after the spring pruning ). Before that ( I don't know how long since I have never done before, but read it can be done carefully ) I want to wrap the whole section with wet towel ( or rafia? ) to try and make the deadwood supple again. I thought to practice on dead twigs about the same size before hand to develop technique. Have you attempted anything similar?
Regards,
Leonard
Hi Leonard

I understand your concerns and I would be feeling the same. I have never tried that technique but I do know that it can be done. My suggestion would be to google it and see what comes up. I found the following thread on the Nut about it. Not much info though?

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bending-jin.20813/

Here is another link or 2 that could help

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t6239-steam-bending-deadwood
https://adamaskwhy.com/2016/11/18/deadwood-bending-trial-by-fire/
 

LeonardB

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Hi Leonard

I understand your concerns and I would be feeling the same. I have never tried that technique but I do know that it can be done. My suggestion would be to google it and see what comes up. I found the following thread on the Nut about it. Not much info though?

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bending-jin.20813/

Here is another link or 2 that could help

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t6239-steam-bending-deadwood
https://adamaskwhy.com/2016/11/18/deadwood-bending-trial-by-fire/
Dorian,
Thanks, all good tips.
Regards
 

Vance Wood

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Just remember your dead wood is connected to living wood over its entire length. Some of the techniques I have seen suggested my indanger the health and life of the tree.
 

LeonardB

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Just remember your dead wood is connected to living wood over its entire length. Some of the techniques I have seen suggested my indanger the health and life of the tree.
Thanks Vance,
I am leaning toward just wrapping the branch in hot cloths and covering with foil ( till it appears more flexible ). I am leery of holding a flame to it for fear of damaging the live vein as you suggest.
Again, like I mentioned, I want to practice on a few dummies ( winter project ) so that in the spring I will be more confident in my technique ( famous last words, lol ).
Will I see you this Sunday at the club meeting? I was going to bring my Mugo for your appraisal.
Leonard
 

Vance Wood

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Thanks Vance,
I am leaning toward just wrapping the branch in hot cloths and covering with foil ( till it appears more flexible ). I am leery of holding a flame to it for fear of damaging the live vein as you suggest.
Again, like I mentioned, I want to practice on a few dummies ( winter project ) so that in the spring I will be more confident in my technique ( famous last words, lol ).
Will I see you this Sunday at the club meeting? I was going to bring my Mugo for your appraisal.
Leonard
For what ever reason I am not receiving the News Letter, are you sure the meeting is this Sunday? If so I'll be there.
 

LeonardB

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The pros routinely separate deadwood from live wood to facilitate bending. There are lots of good examples in mags like Bonsai Today (out of print) and Bonsai Focus
Thanks, I considered that but it is a very delicate piece and I didn't want to risk it.
 

Vance Wood

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Thanks, I considered that but it is a very delicate piece and I didn't want to risk it.
You're right the meeting is this Sunday and I will be there. Do you have any bonsai tools and if you want to do something to the tree bring them.
 

Dorian Fourie

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Just a quick update on my Celtis Literati.

This was the virt that I did on the celtis in March 17
Literat 1.jpg

Since then growth has been very good through Sept and Oct where I had left it to grow out and then only cut it back yesterday to increase the ramification. I will continue to let it grow out and cut back over the whole growing season. I have also narrowed the angle of the bend by pulling it closer to the trunk.

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Dorian Fourie

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Now I am thinking on the next step.

I believe I need to remove the branch right in the middle.

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Virt with removed branch

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Then if I removed that branch, then I feel like I need to bring the top pad downwards and compact it more.

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The other suggestion someone gave was the remove the top pad and branch

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Thoughts
 
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