Intelligent conversation of the Literati

Dorian Fourie

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A lot of this doesn't matter cuz it is a literate....

But I think the longer Shari should be sleek, thin, and cut really precise to match the callousing in the other...

Not grinded in, just a sexy slit to the smooth heart wood.

I know the top wound is already wide...
So it may be difficult to match it to up there...
But also, I would try to take some of the reverse taper out of the trunk up there.

Last....I wonder if bending the trunk somewhere, to put the center of gravity a little more left, wouldn't add to the story of why that one root is so large.
Give it a little more weight to have to have grown bigger to hold up.

I appreciate you letting me think about your trees Dorian!

Think think the magical tool the more you think the better the tree!

It's funny how a tree so simple is really not!
If only bonsai were simple, I would have more hair on my head. LOL.

Always appreciate you thinking about my trees. You always have a unique way of doing it, which makes me start to look at my trees more in detail.

I understand what you are saying about the root and the centre of gravity. I think when I repot it, I need to look at that and see how better it can be made.

The reverse taper caused at the wound has always bothered me but on the original front, it wasn't visible. But with moving it around, it will have to be worked on. I think if I clean up the wound and the calloused area, it could be brought back more into proportion.
 

sorce

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Always appreciate you thinking

Thanks!

I wish more folks would speak all their mind.

I rarely get folks to talk about my trees...
But almost everyone of them leads to an improvement!

I don't know if it's a lot of people opposite you...who don't care to hear...

Or folks opposite me, who don't care to type their thoughts....or don't want to offend someone....

But the longer the "intelligent conversation" the better the tree IMO!

Sorce
 

Dorian Fourie

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But the longer the "intelligent conversation" the better the tree IMO!
I cannot agree more.

I do not spend enough time on the nut to really get into discussions and speak my mind (The joys of running your own business)

I love to hear what people have to say. Even if they think the tree is SH1T, tell me your thoughts and why you think it. It only broadens my view and lets me learn another way to view a tree.
 

LeonardB

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I take a little offense to this. It seems your putting everybody who owns ancient yamadori in this group. I'll just say straight forward, I only make about 13k a year, I have rent and utilitie bills, phone payments, car payments, food, gas, everything we all need right? 13k isn't much, I'm only 22 and work full time at a landscape nursery as the tree lot manager. Yet, I still own several trees that can be put into the 200+ YO realm. Do I pay a team to manicure and style and all that crap? No, I guarantee other then myself, my teacher Connie is the only person who touches my trees (and she won't even touch the yamadori.

On to the discussion of literati (or bunjin). I find it to be one of my favorite styles. It represents a struggle the tree has had to endure at a period of time, or throughout their entire lives. It gives character.
I've seen many literati type trees where I live, but they're all 10ft tall or under, most of these trees live in VERY high wind areas with little moisture or soil (rock outcrops). I'll keep my eye on this thread, literati is a very difficult style IMO.

Aaron
Aaron,
I am with you on this one. The advise I have been given ( by way more experienced individuals ) is to learn how to keep your trees healthy and strong. Opportunities will present themselves at a later date so just bide your time.
The same thing happened to me and the next year a workshop came up with a very talented artist who took my tree and transformed it ( all for the cost of the workshop which I would have attended anyway ). Just check your local listings and you could be pleasantly surprised at what might turn up. Especially bonsai club members who are usually willing to give a helping hand.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Leonard
 

LeonardB

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I cannot agree more.

I do not spend enough time on the nut to really get into discussions and speak my mind (The joys of running your own business)

I love to hear what people have to say. Even if they think the tree is SH1T, tell me your thoughts and why you think it. It only broadens my view and lets me learn another way to view a tree.
Dorian,
I never understood people with degrading remarks about other participants trees. Like you mentioned, broadening our viewpoint only makes things better ( for you and people you share knowledge with as well ).
The way it was explained to me ( and I have heard Bjiorn mention it on a post as well ), all trees have flaws. The question is how to cover them up, or detract from them by using your skills to redirect the view of the observer away from them using the movement of the tree to make them "seem" to go away. Some pros will cut the flaws away and redirect the trees growth to make a better tree ( long term ) don't they?
Leonard
 

Dorian Fourie

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Dorian,
I never understood people with degrading remarks about other participants trees. Like you mentioned, broadening our viewpoint only makes things better ( for you and people you share knowledge with as well ).
The way it was explained to me ( and I have heard Bjiorn mention it on a post as well ), all trees have flaws. The question is how to cover them up, or detract from them by using your skills to redirect the view of the observer away from them using the movement of the tree to make them "seem" to go away. Some pros will cut the flaws away and redirect the trees growth to make a better tree ( long term ) don't they?
Leonard
I have to agree with you on this Leonard. I also understand that everyone is different. Some people can only do degrading as it is in their nature. But what I do expect is that if you have an opinion (degrading or not) you need to be able to back up those statements and say why you said it.

Good bonsai artist definitely see the flaws much easier in all trees and like you said, those are disguised, covered up, hidden etc. The more I am taught to see those types of flaws the happier I am.
 

sorce

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pros will cut the flaws
degrading or not

This reminds me of the Ryan Neil critique where he says something like....

If we were to focus on the problems we could be here all day....

Better to focus on the good qualities.

That's why I like Ryan so much....

Positive breeds positive!

Sorce
 

LeonardB

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I have to agree with you on this Leonard. I also understand that everyone is different. Some people can only do degrading as it is in their nature. But what I do expect is that if you have an opinion (degrading or not) you need to be able to back up those statements and say why you said it.

Good bonsai artist definitely see the flaws much easier in all trees and like you said, those are disguised, covered up, hidden etc. The more I am taught to see those types of flaws the happier I am.
Dorian,
You mention being taught. Good teachers will point out the flaws. Great teachers will do the same and then show you how to use those flaws to your advantage and give choices you didn't know were there.
That's why I am enjoying the "Nut" so much. There have been "good" teachers, and then the "great" ones that knock your socks off!
Leonard
 

Dorian Fourie

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Dorian,
You mention being taught. Good teachers will point out the flaws. Great teachers will do the same and then show you how to use those flaws to your advantage and give choices you didn't know were there.
That's why I am enjoying the "Nut" so much. There have been "good" teachers, and then the "great" ones that knock your socks off!
Leonard
That is a very valid point Leonard. I also love the "Nut" and really wish I could be on it more then I am.
 

Dan92119

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I am curious would the attached picture be considered a Literati or something else? When we were up near Monterey Ca in February we passed this tree. I like it a lot! We didn't stop to take a picture. I looked it up on Google Maps. CA1 and Watsonville Road if you want a different view of it. Monterey Cypress.CA1andWatsonvilleRd1.jpg
 

Smoke

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I am curious would the attached picture be considered a Literati or something else? When we were up near Monterey Ca in February we passed this tree. I like it a lot! We didn't stop to take a picture. I looked it up on Google Maps. CA1 and Watsonville Road if you want a different view of it. Monterey Cypress.View attachment 146904
I never thought of that. I could scour the neighborhood and look for promising material and in the dead of night go out and dig them up. cool...thanks!
 

Waltron

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how about this one? oak I collected off a sandy ledge.. looks like its going to make it now hopefully. been about 3 weeks. I think its kinda a literati no?
2SlIImt.jpg

7e2TyFM.jpg
 

Vance Wood

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Here is one of my Literati Scots Pines.
 

ghues

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I'll submit this yamadori Pinus contorta contorta (Shore Pine) into this Literati discussion (not sure about the intelligent part)..... I believe that it has many of the core elements/characteristics that one finds in this style.....it's nice and tall, has nice flaky bark, it's lanky with many twists and curves, has some natural Jin's, Shari, indicating the many struggles it's survived. Its base is 3", current height is 48" from the pot rim (total length of tree is just over 70").....so it could be much taller as it can easily be titled (to the left in the photos) when it gets a much stronger root system. It came with a beaver pelt of roots which travelled far on the granite rock I found it on.....the entire rootball was rolled it like a sleeping bag, wrapped with wet moss and plastic wrap and into the trusty backpack for transport.
I'm hopeful for its survival as it's flushed nicely this spring...will nurse it along feeding it well for the next two years.
Cheers G
IMG_1391.JPG IMG_1394.JPG
 
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I'll submit this yamadori Pinus contorta contorta (Shore Pine) into this Literati discussion (not sure about the intelligent part)..... I believe that it has many of the core elements/characteristics that one finds in this style.....it's nice and tall, has nice flaky bark, it's lanky with many twists and curves, has some natural Jin's, Shari, indicating the many struggles it's survived. Its base is 3", current height is 48" from the pot rim (total length of tree is just over 70").....so it could be much taller as it can easily be titled (to the left in the photos) when it gets a much stronger root system. It came with a beaver pelt of roots which travelled far on the granite rock I found it on.....the entire rootball was rolled it like a sleeping bag, wrapped with wet moss and plastic wrap and into the trusty backpack for transport.
I'm hopeful for its survival as it's flushed nicely this spring...will nurse it along feeding it well for the next two years.
Cheers G
View attachment 147049 View attachment 147050

I like the tree, but I think I prefer its shadow on the first pic ;)
 

Vance Wood

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I love the species and I love this tree. I had one when I lived in California before the army interfered in my life. Lost it during that time.
 

ghues

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I like the tree, but I think I prefer its shadow on the first pic ;)
Here is another angle where the lower third comes towards the camera (ok IPad).......not the shadow but a little more interesting perhaps.
 

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