Rule of thumb for Mame cascades

Cadillactaste · May 27, 2017

I know the tall cascade pots are so out in the bonsai world. Is it the same with Mame? Reason I ask...is I see both tall thin pots...and then some in shallower pots with a stand. If that the case...Thinking of should one just fill a taller pot with soil and set it in when not showing it for a display? (Outdoor daily health I'm pondering.)

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 2, 2017

Yes, I grow my cascades in their show pots. This means that you have to add protection from tipping over on the grow bench. Mine are not shohin, but rather much bigger trees. Principals are the same.

I have an azalea in a very tall for the diameter cascade pot. For growth I set the cascade pot in a larger, but slightly shorter 3 gallon nursery pot. I have rocks in the nursery pot that serve as ballast to keep the cascade from tipping over. The cascade is stable and balanced enough for display, but on the bench it easily could be knocked over. It is also angled to get the cascading trunk up somewhat to help with health. For watering I tilt the pot back so soil is level to the ground.

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 2, 2017

What is in and or out of fashion is not very important. I like the pot, grew the azalea solely to have an excuse to display a well made pot. I give a crap if some think it is "out of fashion". Even if the someone is the judge for the show.

TomB · Jun 2, 2017

Cadillactaste said:
I know the tall cascade pots are so out in the bonsai world.

It's not so much fashion, as the realisation that the drainage properties of tall pots are not ideal.

Is it the same with Mame? Reason I ask...is I see both tall thin pots...and then some in shallower pots with a stand. If that the case...Thinking of should one just fill a taller pot with soil and set it in when not showing it for a display? (Outdoor daily health I'm pondering.)

This shohin-sized cascade Field maple is not ready for display yet, but you get the idea:

Leo in N E Illinois · Jun 2, 2017

@TomB
With our modern better designed substrates, drainage is not a problem. Recognize that the upper third of a tall pot will hold less water than the lower third. I use a mix of uniform particle size, double sifted. The lowest third I will use a mix heavy in lava and grit, as both do not hold a lot of water, middle third the mix is more the standard for the species, upper third the mix has extra bark, & Akadama or Kanuma, to hold more water. IF particle size is uniform from top to bottom, there are no problems.

If the mix particle size is not uniform, the soil will settle & compact, loosing air voids and decreasing drainage.

TomB · Jun 2, 2017

Hi Leo, I'm not sure I completely agree with you, but I'm not getting into an argument over it (the key points have been made more authoritatively by others, for example in the excellent 'Introductory soil physics' thread and resource on here). Clearly what you are doing is working for you, which is fine. The key point one needs to deal with in whatever way is, as you say, that " the upper third of a tall pot will hold less water than the lower third".

Cadillactaste · Jun 2, 2017

@TomB presentation...wow! The root stand makes a statement. Perks of a semi cascade pot I imagine.

GrimLore · Jun 2, 2017

Cadillactaste said:
Thinking of should one just fill a taller pot with soil and set it in when not showing it for a display? (Outdoor daily health I'm pondering.)

Any good cascade takes a long time to develop. Any I have ever done spend several years in a nursery pot slightly modified.
First I fill the pot 2/3rds with stone, and cover the stone with mesh.
I plant the plant I am trying to work with.
As it grows I perch it on another pot like terracotta or in this case a block.

The pot is 7 inches tall and only contains about 2 1/2 inches of substrate. The block is 8 inches tall. Top to bottom this young one is 22 inches. It stays out and upright in the wind. IF it turns out ok in a few years I will pot it in a small newer type Cascade pot and most likely wire it down to a couple of blocks -

Grimmy

Adair M · Jun 2, 2017

Darkene, here is a picture of a semicascade Shohin in a Shohin box stand. Please excuse the somewhat slanted picture, it's an iPhone picture of one of my Kokufu books;

Adair M · Jun 2, 2017

And here is one of mine;

Cadillactaste · Jun 2, 2017

@GrimLore it's for the contest. Rule is in a pot next year. But it's a Goji berry an invasive plant. It's going in a pot as wide as it's currently in. (It's a cutting and in a tiny green growers pot I imagine it's called.) Just not as deep when potted.

But with it growing as a weed. I doubt it will hurt it overly. It's crazy wild growing.

Cadillactaste · Jun 2, 2017

@Adair M pot and tree amazing! Love the stand with it.

Adair M · Jun 2, 2017

Cadillactaste said:
@Adair M pot and tree amazing! Love the stand with it.

Here's a pine:

Not my tree, but it gives you an idea of the pots people use

Milly · Jun 2, 2017

Adair M said:
And here is one of mine;

View attachment 148055

Great composition

Cadillactaste · Jun 3, 2017

Thanks once again @Adair M . My Japanese quince needs a smaller/shorter pot. I have them...but need to focus on a way to keep it up for everyday for it is a longer cascade and much larger. Not knocking the cylinder look. But want a more clean look for every day bencb. May have to just do the pot under it as well. Or find a block of wood or something. I don't see bonsai stands meant for common outdoor use for every day.

Adair M · Jun 3, 2017

You can use landscaping bricks stacked up.

Pitoon · Apr 22, 2021

TomB said:
It's not so much fashion, as the realisation that the drainage properties of tall pots are not ideal.

This shohin-sized cascade Field maple is not ready for display yet, but you get the idea:

Very nice! Do you still have this tree?

TomB · Apr 22, 2021

Thanks @Pitoon I do, though it looks a bit different now (I've moved it to a rock planting).

Pitoon · Apr 22, 2021

TomB said:
I do, though it looks a bit different now (I've moved it to a rock planting).

Shame on you, lol!

TomB · Apr 22, 2021

Pitoon said:
Shame on you, lol!

It needed a larger pot for the health of the tree.

Rule of thumb for Mame cascades

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