Leaf problems on Hawthorn, need help!

0soyoung · Mar 25, 2017

Cadillactaste said:
Those tiny white specs...is my questioning...aphids?

Could be, but probably not.
The leaf damage is not like that caused by any sucking insect. They insert their stylets into phloem tubes and drink up the sugary fluid (photosynthate). Aphids aren't much for sun tanning, so you find them on the underside, lined up on the central leaf vein, along the petiole and young tender stems. Aphids typically cause the leaf to curl with the leaf underside to the inside of the curl. They don't hang out near the leaf edges just because the pickings, there, aren't so good.

But we see these leafs are damaged toward the tips and margins. So, IMO, it is more like those things are there because of the damage as opposed to causing the damage, aphids or not.

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

0soyoung said:
Could be, but probably not.
The leaf damage is not like that caused by any sucking insect. They insert their stylets into phloem tubes and drink up the sugary fluid (photosynthate). Aphids aren't much for sun tanning, so you find them on the underside, lined up on the central leaf vein, along the petiole and young tender stems. Aphids typically cause the leaf to curl with the leaf underside to the inside of the curl. They don't hang out near the leaf edges just because the pickings, there, aren't so good.

But we see these leafs are damaged toward the tips and margins. So, IMO, it is more like those things are there because of the damage as opposed to causing the damage, aphids or not.

Once I kinda figured it wasn't due to repotting and a short freeze shortly after repotting, I started to assume either aphids or blight. Since I couldn't find any treatment/ cure for blight, I started treating for aphids. I used some organic insecticide from bonide and dawn dish soap w/ water. I was told that dawn would be safe for the plant but suffocates soft-bodied insects. Neither has had any affect. So I'm leaning towards blight, just because a google search for it shows leafs somewhat like the hawthorn's.

Anyone know how to treat blight, other than removing affected areas?

JudyB · Mar 26, 2017

tstrum said:
it wasn't due to repotting and a short freeze shortly after repotting,

Just curious, how do you know that this was not the problem? That sounds like a pretty good reason for damage to me.

petegreg · Mar 26, 2017

tstrum said:
It was in basic nursery pot with regular soil. I repotted just as buds were beginning to swell into a wooden grow box, not the red colander shown in one of the pics. I used pumice and lava with a little charcoal and pine bark.

Did you bare root it to remove all regular nursery soil?
And yes, it can be frost damage too.

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

JudyB said:
Just curious, how do you know that this was not the problem? That sounds like a pretty good reason for damage to me.

because its now spreading to trees that weren't repotted and hadn't leafed out when that last freeze happened.

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

petegreg said:
Did you bare root it to remove all regular nursery soil?
And yes, it can be frost damage too.

Not 100%, I cleaned out quite a bit but I didn't wash them out completely. I was hoping to induce as little shock as possible.

discusmike · Mar 26, 2017

This looks like root issues from repot or to much watering or both

discusmike · Mar 26, 2017

And nuking the trees like Brian stated makes things worse

discusmike · Mar 26, 2017

Learning when and when not to water is one of the hardest things to learn in this hobby

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

discusmike said:
Learning when and when not to water is one of the hardest things to learn in this hobby

So it could be root rot? That would make sense that it's "spreading" if I'm watering too much I think

JudyB · Mar 26, 2017

I would think that it is a combination of things. It's tough to diagnose issues when you don't know if you're doing things properly, as it could be care related. Then when it gets worse, doing more can cause even more issues, so you never know what the actual culprit is. I would think that the first problem you had was the repot and freeze. After that, maybe overwatering and root issues, combined with bombarding the trees with chemicals perhaps as well. I do hope it's not blight, and you can save these.

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

JudyB said:
I would think that it is a combination of things. It's tough to diagnose issues when you don't know if you're doing things properly, as it could be care related. Then when it gets worse, doing more can cause even more issues, so you never know what the actual culprit is. I would think that the first problem you had was the repot and freeze. After that, maybe overwatering and root issues, combined with bombarding the trees with chemicals perhaps as well. I do hope it's not blight, and you can save these.

I think your right, as much as I did to this tree there's no way to single out any particular variable. But lesson learned I hope. I'll give more space and time to my trees. Just hope I don't lose this one, it's by far my favorite. Haha which probably explains my over eagerness to "fix" the problem instead of trusting the process

JudyB · Mar 26, 2017

Happens to all of us....

0soyoung · Mar 26, 2017

tstrum said:
Anyone know how to treat blight, other than removing affected areas?

What is 'blight', exactly?

0soyoung said:
try mixing 2 tablespoons of 3% hydrogen peroxide (from the pharmacy/grocery store) in a quart of water and spraying it on your trees. Repeat every few days. This will nix mildew and similar fungi as well as bacteria should your troubles be due to one or more of them. You won't see affected leaves change much, but the problem should stop progressing if it is fungal/bacterial.

f1pt4 · Mar 26, 2017

tstrum said:
Anyone know how to treat blight, other than removing affected areas?

Dithane M-45, maybe?

BobbyLane · Mar 26, 2017

were you misting or watering the tree from above previously?

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

0soyoung said:
What is 'blight', exactly?

That's something that I'm trying to figure out. I think its a disease

0soyoung said:
What is 'blight', exactly?

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

BobbyLane said:
were you misting or watering the tree from above previously?

Watering from above only. I haven't misted it or submerged it

tstrum · Mar 26, 2017

f1pt4 said:
Dithane M-45, maybe?

I looked it up and it says it treats early and late blight! Thanks for the recommendation

0soyoung · Mar 26, 2017

0soyoung said:
What is 'blight', exactly?

tstrum said:
That's something that I'm trying to figure out. I think its a disease

From the dictionary

a plant disease, especially one caused by fungi such as mildews, rusts, and smuts.

My question was rhetorical.

ZeroTol is another broad spectrum fungicide that might help with your problem.

Leaf problems on Hawthorn, need help!

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