Best time of year to cut back Maple branches hard?

M. Frary · Mar 21, 2017

Adair M said:
My thoughts:

This thread began with discussion about Red Maples. Acer Rubrum. I don't like them as bonsai for all the same reasons as Eric stated. I have 6 of them in my landscape. And every winter they drop branches. I'm constantly picking up fallen branches. I'd hate to have the tree just drop one I've been working for years.

As a general comment about preventing winter die off on deciduous trees, believe it or not, it all begins with strong roots in good soil. The next thing is to protect the trees from wind. Winter winds can dessicate fine twigs very easily. It's not so much cold that does the damage, it's wind.

About when to cut:

Fall, right as the leaves are turning, is the best time. The sap isn't rising, it's falling. But, the tree is preparing for winter, and it's readying buds for the following spring. Use a soft cut paste. The Japanese apprentices I've spoken with believe that cuts made in fall callous over with a thinner callous. Whereas a cut made in spring or summer will callous over with a thick callous that's likely to create a bulge. Because it grows so quickly. The Japanese would rather it heal slower but be less unsightly when it's done than have a fast growing callous that creates a bulging scar.

On a large cut where they take a heavy branch off the trunk, for example, after applying the cut paste, they'll wrap it with grafting tape or something. The idea is the callous will spread across the wound under the tape, rather than bulge up and make a protruding bump. Now, when it comes time to remove the tape, you have to be extremely careful not to accidentally pull the callous off!

Why not use masking tape and let it rot off?

Lars Grimm · Mar 21, 2017

I am actually considering using the Ebihara branch removal technique for some large branches so as to minimize major scarring as well.

Adair M · Mar 21, 2017

M. Frary said:
Why not use masking tape and let it rot off?

Try it!

M. Frary · Mar 21, 2017

Adair M said:
Try it!

I have. I've used it to bind up broken branches. And it rots off or falls off after its done it's job.

Adair M · Mar 21, 2017

M. Frary said:
I have. I've used it to bind up broken branches. And it rots off or falls off after its done it's job.

So, does the callous close over the cut under the tape?

Smoke · Mar 21, 2017

One thing is for sure... Walter is not a member of the " ASNF " club.

M. Frary · Mar 22, 2017

Adair M said:
So, does the callous close over the cut under the tape?

Yep. I had to get it out when bending on a seiju. The branch was just hanging on by bark.

Eric Group · Mar 22, 2017

Adair M said:
My thoughts:

This thread began with discussion about Red Maples. Acer Rubrum. I don't like them as bonsai for all the same reasons as Eric stated. I have 6 of them in my landscape. And every winter they drop branches. I'm constantly picking up fallen branches. I'd hate to have the tree just drop one I've been working for years.

As a general comment about preventing winter die off on deciduous trees, believe it or not, it all begins with strong roots in good soil. The next thing is to protect the trees from wind. Winter winds can dessicate fine twigs very easily. It's not so much cold that does the damage, it's wind.

About when to cut:

Fall, right as the leaves are turning, is the best time. The sap isn't rising, it's falling. But, the tree is preparing for winter, and it's readying buds for the following spring. Use a soft cut paste. The Japanese apprentices I've spoken with believe that cuts made in fall callous over with a thinner callous. Whereas a cut made in spring or summer will callous over with a thick callous that's likely to create a bulge. Because it grows so quickly. The Japanese would rather it heal slower but be less unsightly when it's done than have a fast growing callous that creates a bulging scar.

On a large cut where they take a heavy branch off the trunk, for example, after applying the cut paste, they'll wrap it with grafting tape or something. The idea is the callous will spread across the wound under the tape, rather than bulge up and make a protruding bump. Now, when it comes time to remove the tape, you have to be extremely careful not to accidentally pull the callous off!

There you go- as always more than one way to skin a cat! Great info Adair!

Timbo · Mar 22, 2017

I cut to a leader today on a Acer rubrum before what looks like spring weather coming. I was trying to do it while still frozen as to not shake the roots too bad because it's 4+ inch trunk,
they are hard to cut even with a reciprocating saw.
Sap was already in motion, I thought water had spilled on it right after cutting it.
I cut another tree slightly to see how much water would run out and it dripped down the tree for a minute.

The least sap I had up here was late spring/early summer after buds were opening up.

Any pruning times for trees are confusing to me because you can read every month is a good month depending on how long you search.

sorce · Mar 23, 2017

Timbo said:
confusing to me because you can read every month is a good month depending on how long you search.

In the beginning....

I used to cut on everything all the time....
Air layer whenever....

Sure some stuff died....but...

As soon as I got a little patient and started trying to do it, not by month, but by the "appropriate time", it seems the time would never come, or come and go!

Of course it doesn't help any having a growing season that could be 5 months, or seven months!

I can happily get 2 good prunings in in seven months.
2 months cut, 2 mnthscut, 3 months winter....

But not a 5 monther!

Anyway....

Thats my leftover change in the coinstar machine!

Sorce

Adair M · Mar 23, 2017

Timbo said:
I cut to a leader today on a Acer rubrum before what looks like spring weather coming. I was trying to do it while still frozen as to not shake the roots too bad because it's 4+ inch trunk,
they are hard to cut even with a reciprocating saw.
Sap was already in motion, I thought water had spilled on it right after cutting it.
I cut another tree slightly to see how much water would run out and it dripped down the tree for a minute.

The least sap I had up here was late spring/early summer after buds were opening up.

Any pruning times for trees are confusing to me because you can read every month is a good month depending on how long you search.

Think about it:

When do they tap Maples for syrup? In late winter. When there is still snow on on the ground. Before bud break. The sap is rising!

Djtommy · Mar 23, 2017

I pruned a maple today, took off quit a lot of branches.
The buds were starting to open. I think adair is right, late winter is not a good timing to cut back, it may result in dieback.
Even now, i only cut it back because i also repotted the tree so together with rootwork i dont expect the tree to bleed a lot, if no rootwork i would probably have waited longer.

Lars Grimm · Mar 23, 2017

Timbo said:
Any pruning times for trees are confusing to me because you can read every month is a good month depending on how long you search.

This is what kills me. There is so much "fake news" out there it is hard for a newest practitioner to know what is the appropriate time.

sorce · Mar 23, 2017

Sap sap bo bap!

Maple maple toe tap!

Really good to know that!

But we don't give a Ffff!

Sorce

Timbo · Mar 23, 2017

Djtommy said:
I pruned a maple today, took off quit a lot of branches.
The buds were starting to open. I think adair is right, late winter is not a good timing to cut back, it may result in dieback.

I could be wrong and maybe if you chopped it to nothing it might die back, but they take much more sap out than I had leak and those trees do fine.

Adair M said:
Think about it:

When do they tap Maples for syrup? In late winter. When there is still snow on on the ground. Before bud break. The sap is rising!

I was expecting some just not the gush I got. When I think of sap I think the thicker slower stuff like pines, not just plain non-smelling water.
Well anyways, I learned not to do it this time of year.

Adair M · Mar 23, 2017

Timbo said:
I could be wrong and maybe if you chopped it to nothing it might die back, but they take much more sap out than I had leak and those trees do fine.

I was expecting some just not the gush I got. When I think of sap I think the thicker slower stuff like pines, not just plain non-smelling water.
Well anyways, I learned not to do it this time of year.

Yeah, that's why they take buckets of sap, and boil it down to make syrup!

Eric Group · Mar 23, 2017

Timbo said:
I cut to a leader today on a Acer rubrum before what looks like spring weather coming. I was trying to do it while still frozen as to not shake the roots too bad because it's 4+ inch trunk,
they are hard to cut even with a reciprocating saw.
Sap was already in motion, I thought water had spilled on it right after cutting it.
I cut another tree slightly to see how much water would run out and it dripped down the tree for a minute.

The least sap I had up here was late spring/early summer after buds were opening up.

Any pruning times for trees are confusing to me because you can read every month is a good month depending on how long you search.

It is true... and it varies wildly depending on what you are trying to accomplish, the species of tree you are dealing with and your location...

All of those can dramatically affect when might be the optimal time for a technique... the thing to remember though is that in general... most of these timing things are "best practices" NOT RULES. There is not generally an immediate negative reaction to a poorly timed cut or even a repot done a bit late or a bit early... or done in Fall instead of Spring... it is about your preference, your experience and what works for you and WHEN you can do it. Can you cut a Maple branch mid winter? Sure! Prolly won't harm the tree much, it the healing wing really start right away and it might lead to more die back... could you cut it in early Spring? Yes. Might callouse over thicker... late Spring? Sure, might bleed more... summer? Yeah prolly won't heal all the way prior to winter... Fall? Yep... according to Adair this is a great time, and I have had fine results some too in the fall... but also had a few branches dropped because it didn't heal over and where I anted a short branch, I had to remove one all together...

So, when can you do it? When you have the time and the "want to". If you have very specific goals for that cut, use your best judgement...

Adair M · Mar 23, 2017

Uh, Eric? You will get more maple "bleeding" if you cut in late winter/early spring than you would in late spring. Remember that maple syrup thing...

Eric Group · Mar 23, 2017

Adair M said:
Uh, Eric? You will get more maple "bleeding" if you cut in late winter/early spring than you would in late spring. Remember that maple syrup thing...

Uh, that has not been the case with JM in my experience at all. In the Spring (Februaryish in my area) they bleed like a stuck pig... so much so that you almost can't put cut paste on them.. it washes right off.

Timbo · Mar 23, 2017

M. Frary said:
I have. I've used it to bind up broken branches. And it rots off or falls off after its done it's job.

I need to try this, the ice snapped some leaders and key branches this year.

2 feet high non the less.

Best time of year to cut back Maple branches hard?

Bonsai Godzilla

Chumono

Pinus Envy

Bonsai Godzilla

Pinus Envy

Ignore-Amus

Bonsai Godzilla

Masterpiece

Chumono

Nonsense Rascal

Pinus Envy

Omono

Chumono

Nonsense Rascal

Chumono

Pinus Envy

Masterpiece

Pinus Envy

Masterpiece

Chumono

Similar threads