Should I decandle my JBP 'now'?

[tmjudd1]

エドガー
No matter what books you read, which videos you watch, and who's advice you take... you will 'NEVER' obtain ALL of the answers pertaining to 'ANY' given subject. Most everything we humans do, be it highly technical, or simply just for hobbies, is simply a 'practice', at best. Even hard science is not really as 'hard' as the label implies. The principles of science and mathematics, themselves, are in a constant state of flux, ever changing, and designed to simply be 'understandable' at our current level of empirical knowledge. Bonsai is no different. I have a full library of books that I've been studying and constantly adding to since the late 70's. A wealth of knowledge, to say the least. Everything from growing earthworms to particle physics. After almost 40 years, I've still not learned how to grow the perfect 'monster' earthworm, nor have I designed the Star Trek warp drive engine, either (not yet, anyways). Buy books, rent videos, and listen to folks who know something. It's all about learning!

 

[Ali Raza]

エドガー
No matter what books you read, which videos you watch, and who's advice you take... you will 'NEVER' obtain ALL of the answers pertaining to 'ANY' given subject. Most everything we humans do, be it highly technical, or simply just for hobbies, is simply a 'practice', at best. Even hard science is not really as 'hard' as the label implies. The principles of science and mathematics, themselves, are in a constant state of flux, ever changing, and designed to simply be 'understandable' at our current level of empirical knowledge. Bonsai is no different. I have a full library of books that I've been studying and constantly adding to since the late 70's. A wealth of knowledge, to say the least. Everything from growing earthworms to particle physics. After almost 40 years, I've still not learned how to grow the perfect 'monster' earthworm, nor have I designed the Star Trek warp drive engine, either (not yet, anyways). Buy books, rent videos, and listen to folks who know something. It's all about learning!

Now that sounds like "Lesson of life"

 

[エドガー]

Buy books, rent videos, and listen to folks who know something. It's all about learning!

Yes yes... and one must not forget to eat lots of yummy Popeyes fried chicken, good pizza, cheeseburgers, cookies, ice-cream, chocolate, donuts (and whatever else one likes) along the way

 

[SantaFeBonsai]

I live in Dallas, Texas. I was going to wait until the end of June to decandle my JBP's, however. The said candles, (all of the stronger ones, that is...), are now starting to bud, as shown below. Is this 'budding' an indication that I should probably go ahead and decandle 'now'?

View attachment 246955

“If” you were a pro and you were working on your most valuable jbp you would decandle the weakest interior shoots on June 15, on June 25 you would decandle all but the strongest shoots and on July 4th you decandle the remaining shoots.

There’s also a lot of literature that says to reduce the number of needle pairs to 5 in the shoots you decandled July 4th, 6 pairs for the decandling made on June 25 and 7 pairs on the weakest shoots but going to 7, 8 and 9 pairs respectively works better in our area.

This is boone’s technique, performed by his disciples and tweaked by years of local experience.

 

[River's Edge]

"This is boone’s technique, performed by his disciples and tweaked by years of local experience"

This is one of my teachers techniques ( Boon) used in certain circumstances. He also explains that staged decandling two weeks apart is primarily for trees that are very unbalanced in growth. it is generally the first technique that he teaches in one of the early classes on decandling. However the decandling techniques are dependant on the tree and the climatic zone. He also teaches and practices a variety of decandling techniques to suit particular circumstances. ie: trees that are more advanced with very balanced shoot growth throughout. The comment above makes it sound like there is only one way and that is not the case. Just for clarification. When i review my notes and handouts they reveal many variations of decandling methods and timing.

 

[tmjudd1]

decandling two weeks apart is primarily for trees that are very unbalanced in growth

My trees are not only young, but they are also 'extremely' out of balance, at this stage of growth. That being said. I've managed to create a lot of very nice juvenile growth down low on these trees. I left those juvenile flushes alone. They are too small for decandling. I want them to grow out and further develop additional platforms for more branching/ramification/trunk development. So far, so good! I'm actually quite surprised with the progress of these trees... and it's only half way through the growing season! I must be doing 'something' right! I hope that my good luck holds out and successful growth continues. If so, I can't wait to see what 'next' years results will bring!

 

[ihaveaspaceship]

I always thought de-candeling all at once , and needle plucking evenly would solve any imbalances going on within the tree?

 

[tmjudd1]

I always thought de-candeling all at once , and needle plucking evenly would solve any imbalances going on within the tree?

De-candling is stressful to the tree. From what I've learned, you should always start with the lower and/or weakest candles first. This leaves the higher and stronger candles, and healthy growth, to act as fuel 'pumps', per se, to insure good flow and exchange of nutrients throughout the entire tree, between foliage and roots. A well established tree will have many, many, many fuel pumps, thru-out the entire tree, so decandling everything all at once would not put the tree into any real jeopardy, however. It's still going to be very stressful to the tree. In 'my' situation... I don't have established trees with numerous, established 'fuel-pumps' in operation. I'm taking the safer route and working slowly from the weaker growth to the strongest growth. I want to keep my strongest pumps in operation for as long as possible.

 

[River's Edge]

I always thought de-candeling all at once , and needle plucking evenly would solve any imbalances going on within the tree?

Nope, it just perpetuates the imbalance that exists. Think about it this way. If you decandle a strong candle and a weak candle at the same time, they have the same length of time to recover, the stronger area continues to win the race. If you decandle the smaller candle first, it has a londger time to recover, if you also leave more needles on it there is more photosynthesis present and more growth occurs in that area. Cut off the larger candle weeks later and it has less of the growing season to catch up, if you also remove more of its needles than it is weakened and recover even more slowly. End result the weaker candles gain in strength and the stronger candles fall behind. Creating more of a balance.

 

[Adair M]

Now that my pines are coming along quite well... I think that I, myself, will rent Boon's video! I keep trying to catch the 'Smith's', for their local presentations, but darned if work, etc. foils it every time. One of these days. For now, Boon is looking really good. I'm sure that the really cheap rental will be money very well spent. For whatever it's worth... I don't like paying for videos, music nor computer programs, either. I'm simply not into any of that stuff, at all, however. I'll certainly pay the price for good education and information 'ANY' day!

You realize it was Boon that taught the Smiths everything they know.

Boon is hardly “old school”. He keeps current with all the latest techniques. Traditional? Yes, for the most part. But he can come up with some innovative displays, too.

For JBP, he is the best in the country. Bar none.

I have been fortunate to study under Boon and work on his JBP, my own JBP, and some of his clients JBP. The instruction on his JBP videos is exactly the same as you would get in person. I highly recommend them. Of course, working with him personally, and for a long time, he has taught me more in depth - little nuances that apply to special cases. But the fundamentals are all in his videos.

 

[エドガー]

If there is one person I'd love to see more videos on, is.... Valavanis.

I always question why there's almost no videos of his lectures, teachings, demos, etc. We need a camera-crew to follow him around everyday, lol... even on his meal breaks, ha. He's the 3rd in the Hall of Fame for crying out loud.

 

[Adair M]

De-candling is stressful to the tree. From what I've learned, you should always start with the lower and/or weakest candles first. This leaves the higher and stronger candles, and healthy growth, to act as fuel 'pumps', per se, to insure good flow and exchange of nutrients throughout the entire tree, between foliage and roots. A well established tree will have many, many, many fuel pumps, thru-out the entire tree, so decandling everything all at once would not put the tree into any real jeopardy, however. It's still going to be very stressful to the tree. In 'my' situation... I don't have established trees with numerous, established 'fuel-pumps' in operation. I'm taking the safer route and working slowly from the weaker growth to the strongest growth. I want to keep my strongest pumps in operation for as long as possible.

You have been describing the “10 day” method of decandling. There is another method, the “all at once” method.

The “All at once” method uses auxin to suppress the strongest areas so that the weaker areas can “catch up”. This is done by leaving longer stubs behind when cutting the candles of the strong shoots, and leaving virtually no stub behind on the weakest shoots. The medium strength shoots would get medium stubs. There is auxin in the stubs that is still active even after decandling - for a while. Eventually, the stub dies, and the auxin stops. The auxin suppresses the growth of the second set of candles. Since there is virtually no stub on the weak ones, there’s no auxin suppressing the second set of candles, the weak ones can start growing immediately. The stronger areas, meanwhile, continue to be suppressed by the remaining auxins in their stubs. Eventually, the auxin flow ceased, and then the strong areas begin to make their second set.

Now, at the end of the growing season, the weak areas are less weak, and the strong areas are less strong, so the tree is booming balanced. It works. That is the method I used to train my JBP that I showed at the National Show in 2016. It had very short and very balanced needles.

 

[Adair M]

If there is one person I'd love to see more videos on, is.... Valavanis.

I always question why there's almost no videos of his lectures, teachings, demos, etc. We need a camera-crew to follow him around everyday, lol... even on his meal breaks, ha. He's the 3rd in the Hall of Fame for crying out loud.

He has written several excellent books.

He’s more of a maple guy than a pine guy. Rochester is too cold for JBP, but he has some very nice Scots pines.

 

[エドガー]

He’s more of a maple guy than a pine guy.

Been reading Boon's website and tips… I’m very tempted and close to renting his vids very soon; just figuring out the best time when I’m most free to watch/study. Btw, how long is each video?

Speaking of which… are his Maple videos any good too? Or, same old and same as most other readings/blogs/lessons/videos?

 

[Adair M]

Been reading Boon's website and tips… I’m very tempted and close to renting his vids very soon; just figuring out the best time when I’m most free to watch/study. Btw, how long is each video?

Speaking of which… are his Maple videos any good too? Or, same old and same as most other readings/blogs/lessons/videos?

I don’t remember exactly, 45 minutes? Each. Something like that. I purchased them as DVDs.

I think the pine series has 4 videos.

I haven’t watched any of the others. I did buy the JBP DVD’s, and used the info for a year, then I started the Intensives. I go out to Boon’s 3 or 4 times a year, he comes to my place once a year.

 

[LanceMac10]

@0soyoung

what was it, 2-3 weeks from pruning?




looks like a sprish of daconil is required?

 

[Adair M]

@0soyoung

what was it, 2-3 weeks from pruning?

View attachment 249057


looks like a sprish of daconil is required?

And apply the Bonide Infuse Granular Systemic Fungicide. It is absorbed they the roots, and dispersed throughout the tree. The fungus attacks when needles are developing. It doesn’t show up as bands until months later. And then it’s too late!

Applying the Systemic NOW prevents it!

 

[LanceMac10]

That the stuff you have to get on Amazon or e-bay, that sort of thing? Daconil has worked in the past, and I can't seem to locate the granular systemic stuff locally.

 

[River's Edge]

That the stuff you have to get on Amazon or e-bay, that sort of thing? Daconil has worked in the past, and I can't seem to locate the granular systemic stuff locally.

I agree it is difficult to obtain, no one will ship it to Canada, also several states are on the list for unavailable . I am having a difficult time sourcing the product. On Line shipped to your home seems the best bet if you live in a State that allows the product. From my research Ace Hardware seems to sell On Line and will deliver to a store near you ( stateside only), but you must buy 12 bottles @ $14.99 each.

 

[bwaynef]

I agree it is difficult to obtain, no one will ship it to Canada, also several states are on the list for unavailable . I am having a difficult time sourcing the product. On Line shipped to your home seems the best bet if you live in a State that allows the product.

The active ingredient in Infuse Granular is Thiophanate Methyl. (The liquid Infuse product is Propaconizole.) You can get Thiophanate Methyl in several other products, Thiomyl being the route I went initially. The infuse product is the only Granular version I'm aware of though.