Not sure which mulberry I'm dealing with. Red or white?

[MadV]

I found a small mulberry sapling near my home in East Tennessee. Using Samsung's new AI, it tells me that it's red mulberry by taking pictures from different angles. If it is the red mulberry, I'd be interested in collecting it in the future for bonsai.

 

[Gabler]

It's not a white mulberry. It could be a red mulberry.

 

[MadV]

It's not a white mulberry. It could be a red mulberry.

What rules out the white?

 

[MadV]

 

[Gabler]

What rules out the white?

The leaves are the wrong shape and texture. White mulberry leaves are smaller and glossy.

 

[GGB]

I have heard they hybridize (on this forum) but I don’t know if that’s true. Our native red mulberry is fairly rare and very picky about where it grows. Where as white mulberry is invasive and will grow everywhere, and does grow everywhere. There are never less than 5 white mulberries in my field of vision at any time, and I live in the city. You may have to wait for it to get a little older before you can identify it. I know there are features that separate the two but leaves may mature a little with age over the next few years.

It looks like you live in a wooded area so it could certainly be the native. The whites ones are naturalized here in our “woods” but or woods are like 20 years old and full of nothing but invasive.

 

[MadV]

The leaves are the wrong shape and texture. White mulberry leaves are smaller and glossy.

I understand, I'm just having a hard time finding pictures of other trees with this leaf shape and color. Not being the white is trending in the right direction but I'd like to have a better idea.

 

[MadV]

I have heard they hybridize (on this forum) but I don’t know if that’s true. Our native red mulberry is fairly rare and very picky about where it grows. Where as white mulberry is invasive and will grow everywhere, and does grow everywhere. There are never less than 5 white mulberries in my field of vision at any time, and I live in the city. You may have to wait for it to get a little older before you can identify it. I know there are features that separate the two but leaves may mature a little with age over the next few years.

It looks like you live in a wooded area so it could certainly be the native. The whites ones are naturalized here in our “woods” but or woods are like 20 years old and full of nothing but invasive.

The red is also less common in my area, this tree could in fact be a hybrid also. I will say the bottom of the leaves are more of a fuzzy texture.

 

[Gabler]

It looks like it could be a red mulberry, or maybe a paper mulberry? I've never had the opportunity to se either in person, so I'm not sure. It's very much unlike any white mulberry I've ever seen.

 

[MadV]

It looks like it could be a red mulberry, or maybe a paper mulberry? I've never had the opportunity to se either in person, so I'm not sure. It's very much unlike any white mulberry I've ever seen.

I may end up collecting it since it's so unusual, I just wasn't interested in the more invasive, introduced white mulberry. But any mulberry may make a great bonsai

 

[Gabler]

I may end up collecting it since it's so unusual, I just wasn't interested in the more invasive, introduced white mulberry. But any mulberry may make a great bonsai

Invasives can make great bonsai. It's good to remove them from the local environment, and they tend to thrive under harsh treatment. I highly recommend you give white mulberry a try. They're essentially a cold hardy ficus.

 

[MadV]

Invasives can make great bonsai. It's good to remove them from the local environment, and they tend to thrive under harsh treatment. I highly recommend you give white mulberry a try. They're essentially a cold hardy ficus.

I wonder if I would do harm to it by collecting it now (mid-May), instead of waiting on a more optimal time of year for survival.

 

[James W.]

Which thread do you want me to reply on? You have started duplicate threads and are getting conflicting info on both.

 

[Gabler]

Which thread do you want me to reply on? You have started duplicate threads and are getting conflicting info on both.

Need help with this Mulberry. Is it a red or the white?

While searching around my house I found a mulberry tree and I'm hoping it's the red mulberry, as I understand it's native to my area, unlike the white Mulberry. I have tried to research the differences and I'm leaning toward it being a red, but I have had a hard time finding others trees with...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[dbonsaiw]

Invasives can make great bonsai. It's good to remove them from the local environment, and they tend to thrive under harsh treatment. I highly recommend you give white mulberry a try. They're essentially a cold hardy ficus.

Interesting. Do they layer well? They are invasive indeed and have grown all over my yard. I have everything from little seedlings to 3"+ trunks. Maybe I'll try a layer.

 

[Gabler]

Interesting. Do they layer well? They are invasive indeed and have grown all over my yard. I have everything from little seedlings to 3"+ trunks. Maybe I'll try a layer.

I can't say I've personally tried it. I just pull up mulberry from the ground to get rid of it, and if I happen to find one with good roots, I keep it in a pot as a future bonsai.

That said, they're related to ficus and osage orange, and they're supposed to root easily from cuttings, etc.

 

[rockm]

Not to be a fly in the ointment but what difference does it make--it's not worth the trouble of even pulling it up. Won'tbe worth much for bonsai purposes for a decade or more.

 

[Gabler]

Not to be a fly in the ointment but what difference does it make--it's not worth the trouble of even pulling it up. Won'tbe worth much for bonsai purposes for a decade or more.

Yeah. Rockm is right about leaving it in the ground. Dig it up when it has a nice trunk in a few years. White mulberries grow and thicken fast when they're young, and whatever this is, I would expect it will probably grow quickly, too.

 

[MadV]

Not to be a fly in the ointment but what difference does it make--it's not worth the trouble of even pulling it up. Won'tbe worth much for bonsai purposes for a decade or more.

True. I guess all the interest came when I first realized that the small tree could be unique instead of invasive and I went on a search to attempt to identify it which proved somewhat difficult.

I plan to sell the property by next year so I won't be around to see it mature which is why I'd be interested in digging it up if it is in fact uncommon. I will be around to see what it does in the next year and I'll keep an eye on it and update with the changes.

 

[James W.]

Here is what I know about mulberry:
Red mulberry (Morus rubra) is native to North America. White mulberry (Moris alba) is native to Asia. White mulberry is considered an invasive species in North America and hybridizes easily with red mulberry. A study of DNA (by Purdue?) showed that most if not all wild/feral mulberries in USA have some level of hybridization. Black mulberry has much less presence in North America.
The leaves on red and white mulberries are highly variable from juvenile throughout the life of the tree, identification cannot be presumed from the shape or size of the leaves. Because of the hybridization the amount hairs on the leaves is also quite variable from tree to tree. Black, red or white berries are possible on either species.
Mulberry trees are easily layered or rooted from cuttings. Root vigor is comparable to that of elms and trident maples. The trees grow quickly under favorable conditions, I have experienced caliper increase of up to 1" in a growing season on ground growing trees. They back-bud easily but not as excessively as Chinese elm. The leaves reduce somewhat in pot culture. Flowers are inconspicuous, fruit is small and in scale for bonsai. The bark is fairly smooth and does not quickly roughen up to convey the feeling of age. The roots are an interesting orange color (similar to osage orange), I do not know yet if they will bark up to a more reasonable hue on a root-over-rock.
Layering (ground or air) would be my preferred method of collection as wild trees typically have one or two roots about 400 feet long. Layering can be done throughout the growing season but should not be left too long as they can overdo themselves putting out roots and make a mess.
I would not hesitate to recommend a mulberry as a bonsai subject for any level of hobbyist.