New directions in pines.

MichaelS

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All these have been grown from seed or grafting. I have made a determined effort to think about the position of each branch according to what I want rather than what convention says. When I look at mature pines around me, I see many with ascending branches and a much more complicated structure than your common garden variety bonsai.
Thing is, when you do this you absolutely have to extrapolate because there is no blueprint to work from. Sketching the projected form is a very good tool. You can use that sketch to check on now and then to see if you are keeping on the road or to make adjustments as unexpected things come up. I have just started this so it is still in the theory stage but definitely more interesting than following the ''tried and true'' method.

This first one is a Scots Pine. You can see that the main branch is descending but most of the others have been brought up.

P1100568.JPG

P1100569.JPG

I have tried to project what I would like in the future. Perhaps 10 or 15 years. Whether I realize it is another matter......
It's impossible to include all the back branches in the drawing because it's just too difficult and it tend to clutter the image in a drawing but the way the main branches emerge from the trunk is the important thing at this stage. From there you can direct them as you see fit.

P1100570.JPG

The next one is also a scots.
It was grafted onto scots stock about 12 years ago. This blue leaf variety has a strongly ascending branch habit so it will be formed into a broom. This is a common natural habit for this species any way.
No sketch for this one yet.

P1100547.JPG
 
Nice starts @MichaelS always good to see people showing promising projects! I have a scots that is somewhat similar to where you are taking the black pine, a more natural, minimal approach.
 
Beautiful sketches.
 
Wonderful art work and trees look good so far. Your instinct and eye are good. Continue good work;).
 
All these have been grown from seed or grafting. I have made a determined effort to think about the position of each branch according to what I want rather than what convention says. When I look at mature pines around me, I see many with ascending branches and a much more complicated structure than your common garden variety bonsai.
Thing is, when you do this you absolutely have to extrapolate because there is no blueprint to work from. Sketching the projected form is a very good tool. You can use that sketch to check on now and then to see if you are keeping on the road or to make adjustments as unexpected things come up. I have just started this so it is still in the theory stage but definitely more interesting than following the ''tried and true'' method.

This first one is a Scots Pine. You can see that the main branch is descending but most of the others have been brought up.

View attachment 122686

View attachment 122687

I have tried to project what I would like in the future. Perhaps 10 or 15 years. Whether I realize it is another matter......
It's impossible to include all the back branches in the drawing because it's just too difficult and it tend to clutter the image in a drawing but the way the main branches emerge from the trunk is the important thing at this stage. From there you can direct them as you see fit.

View attachment 122688

The next one is also a scots.
It was grafted onto scots stock about 12 years ago. This blue leaf variety has a strongly ascending branch habit so it will be formed into a broom. This is a common natural habit for this species any way.
No sketch for this one yet.

View attachment 122683
so, you are trying to "make your bonsai look like a tree"? That IS THE PRIMARY RULE IN BONSAI! How crafty...
IMG_0153.PNG

JK

The first one is a pretty good start! Nice trunk, good taper, decent branch structure... Very much within the "rules" in almost all those ways though...
the second looks almost exactly like an early version of one of Vance's Mugho Pines he posted updates about here many times... The third just doesn't do it for me personally, but we are all entitled to our opinions and the fact the vary is what makes it interesting to discuss, right?

Good work getting the needles so small, was that via horticultural technique or did you needle prune?
 
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so, you are trying to "make your bonsai look like a tree"? That IS THE PRIMARY RULE IN BONSAI! How crafty...
View attachment 122738

JK

The first one is a pretty good start! Nice trunk, good taper, decent branch structure... Very much within the "rules" in almost all those ways though...
the second looks almost exactly like an early version of one of Vance's Mugho Pines he posted updates about here many times... The third just doesn't do it for me personally, but we are all entitled to our opinions and the fact the vary is what makes it interesting to discuss, right?

Good work getting the needles so small, was that via horticultural technique or did you needle prune?
Yes It's a pity Naka never really did heed his own message...
Short needles are the least of my concern right now
 
A couple more outside the ''norm''.
P1100553.JPG P1100554.JPG

On the other hand, here's a workshop tree done with the help of an international preacher. I was gritting my teeth the whole way through. No more workshops for me. They are all the same. No artistic approach whatsoever. However I will persist with this one and try to form it into the classical ''Myajima''style. I've always had a soft spot for that form. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...X&ved=0ahUKEwj9-M3UrqLQAhUJNbwKHd1KBpoQsAQIIQ


P1100548.JPG
 
Yes It's a pity Naka never really did heed his own message...
Riiiiiiggghhhhttt... real shame. He could have made masterpieces like... these, instead of creating some of the best bonsai in the history of American Bonsai and revolutionizing the art form on this continent... ?? You might need to take another look at some of his trees if you really believe what you wrote there.
First tree in the second batch is probably the best of the bunch... might make a nice literati one day! They all look a bit weak and need to fill in substantially though. I know the season is different there, did you recently prune them? Just trying to get an idea where they are in the growth/candle pruning process.
 
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Eric Group, post: 401843



Riiiiiiggghhhhttt... real shame. He could have made masterpieces like... these, instead of creating some of the best bonsai in the history of American Bonsai and revolutionizing the art form on this continent... ?? You might need to take another look at some of his trees if you really believe what you wrote there.

I'm sorry I'm probably wrong. Please educate me (show me)
Just trying to get an idea where they are in the growth/candle pruning process.

Try looking at them. That should give some idea.......[/QUOTE]
 
Either do I. Not all, but I like you're trying to go for sth different.
 
"





I'm sorry I'm probably wrong. Please educate me (show me)


Try looking at them. That should give some idea.......
[/QUOTE]
Oh I looked at them, and it looks like they are really sparse for pines (all except the last two which have more growth), that is why I asked... No need to be a jerk about it. I was just trying to figure out where you were in seasonal care since you are on the opposite side of the world and pines here would potentially be left in Poor health with such strangled growth at this time in the season (headed into winter). I assume these were recently pruned or pruned very late in the growing season last year and you are in the middle of/early part of the growing season now-Correct? Hard to tell from the pics.


As for Naka...
Goshin is the best known example of his work probably, and in my mind is a great example of a "bonsai the looks like a tree"! Well.. treeS
IMG_0154.JPG
You too can find numerous examples with a simple google search I am sure, but this is another old raft of his in a collection in the West coast I thought had a nice natural feel... (kind of reminded me of a few pieces Johng has been working on in his garden!)
IMG_0155.JPG
Sort of a windswept but unconventional in many ways- planted on a rock, trunks flowing in different directions... tall sinuous trunks like you would see in a natural clump of trees growing close together on a shallow rock... not a masterpiece like Goshin, but a cool little arrangement.

That is my only point... I feel many of his trees have a very natural, rustic appeal which I get the impression is what you are going for?
 
Eric Group, post: 401941, member: 15627"]
Oh I looked at them, and it looks like they are really sparse for pines (all except the last two which have more growth), that is why I asked... No need to be a jerk about it.[/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to be a jerk. But surely it is plain to see where they are by looking at them. If they're sparse, they're sparse. The new growth has just started (as you can see) Old needles were removed before wiring during winter (as you can see) Wire is to come off soon. It's late spring here.


As for Naka...
Goshin is the best known example of his work probably, and in my mind is a great example of a "bonsai the looks like a tree"! Well.. treeS
View attachment 122859

I don't like Goshin. (sorry is that sacrilegious?) Never have. (I don't hate it) Looks kind of fake to me. Too neat? too refined? too contrived? too something....
The Windswept Juniper group is very nice. With some careful refining it will be beautiful and evocative. A masterpiece? Not yet.
not a masterpiece like Goshin, but a cool little arrangement.
Infinitely better than Goshin. Forget size and grandure. Look at the essence. The soul man, the soul:cool:
I did the google search. No surprises.
 
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