Itoigawa or Kishu?

[phongtien1996]

Hi,

I just bought these trees but the seller is not sure if they are Itoigawa or Kishu.

 

[Paradox]

Hard to tell.. would need a very close up picture of the foliage and even still might be hard to tell.

Definitely can't determine from the above pictures because we can't see the close details of the foliage

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

If the provenance isn’t retained as the tree moves from one owner to the next, it would not be possible to truly identify it. Closer pix of the foliage would help people who want to take a guess.

 

[Paradox]

Other than just wanting to know, in the end it doesn't really matter. Both varieties are treated the same

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If the provenance isn’t retained as the tree moves from one owner to the next, it would not be possible to truly identify it. Closer pix of the foliage would help people who want to take a guess.

I agree. Particularly because care in one garden will influence how it looks - versus care in another garden. If you have a kishu and itoigawa right next to each other, in the same garden, and you KNOW that one is a kishu and one is a itoigawa, you can tell them apart. But as far as visually confirming based appearance alone? It can't be done - or at least the best you could say is it "looks like" an itoigawa.

I purchased a large shimpaku from a well-know bonsai nursery on the west coast a number of years ago. It was buried out in the back in a sea of San Jose junipers - such that the owner was even surprised that it was out there after I dragged it out (it had been there for years). However it was not labeled, and other than knowing it is a shimpaku... no one will ever really know. It "looks like" an itoigawa - and I can bring my known itoigawas and put them right next to each other and they look identical. But "looking" is not the same as "knowing".

 

[River's Edge]

I agree. Particularly because care in one garden will influence how it looks - versus care in another garden. If you have a kishu and itoigawa right next to each other, in the same garden, and you KNOW that one is a kishu and one is a itoigawa, you can tell them apart. But as far as visually confirming based appearance alone? It can't be done - or at least the best you could say is it "looks like" an itoigawa.

I purchased a large shimpaku from a well-know bonsai nursery on the west coast a number of years ago. It was buried out in the back in a sea of San Jose junipers - such that the owner was even surprised that it was out there after I dragged it out (it had been there for years). However it was not labeled, and other than knowing it is a shimpaku... no one will ever really know. It "looks like" an itoigawa - and I can bring my known itoigawas and put them right next to each other and they look identical. But "looking" is not the same as "knowing".

I have to track the cuttings or air layers from my Itoigawa and kishu mother plants. they are easy to mix up. Once mixed it truly becomes " it looks like".
The Kishu typically is chubbier in the needle formation and lighter in colour! At least in my garden with similar care for both cultivars.

 

[Phucshimpaku]

II think it's likely an Itoigawa; in Vietnam, Kishu tends to have a lighter green color with more blue hues and thicker foliage. I have some Itoigawa that look exactly like this.