"Elephant Foot" Maple

[A Random User]

Picked up my first Maple today, a Trident... Don't necessarily know if this is a good or bad thing? Seeing that it resembles an Elephant's foot, and is straight as a telephone pole. Great news is that it was free! And has a very large caliber trunk, in the 3rd picture you can see the size of the trunk in comparison to my 7 1/2 inch jin pliers. From there, kinda goes down hill.

In my opinion it needs a trunk chop a lot further down from where it was chopped... and the roots sawn flat. This was a field grown tree, with little of the field grown tree "issues", resolved. So, I am going to try and resolve them... Since my first maple, had some questions...

Because of the trunk and it's straightness... I think it best to try and go for more for a broom style tree, where multiple trunks protrude from a centralized point of the trunk. I also would prefer this if possible, because I think it would probably be the quickest way of healing over a gigantic cut... having the multiple branches finish out the continuation of the trunk, and being allowed to run free. I am therefore considering doing a straight cut, horizontally across the center of the trunk, about half way up the trunk.

I don't want to really spend years dicking about with the tree, doing cuts upon cuts, upon cuts to smaller branches trying to close over a gigantic wound. Would prefer to do just the one, and let the branches naturally heal over it in the middle.

So, First question... does this sound logical and feasible?

Second question... The first bit of growth coming off the tree is very high up, and I want to cut lower...
What is the chances for failure, without a bit of growth pulling nutrients up the tree, and would it be ok tho cut lower down?

Third question... Everything is all over the board on when to do this??? So when does everyone think the best time? Our weather is for the most part lacking in winter... we usually have a couple of cold nights with freezes.

Fourth question... regarding roots, How hard can one cut? Can one quite literally saw straight across flat?
And should one do this at the same time as the chop?

Thanks in advanced!!!

 

[Eric Group]

1- for the most part, yeah that makes sense... Sounds like you have a plan and on a healthy Maple, you can chop back pretty far without much concern... I had one ever that didn't make it and I think I just went below the lowest node on the tree...

2- guess I kinda started answering this above but there is no need tha be foliage left above the chop IF THE TREE IS HAPPY when you do it, and if you do not chop below the lowest node on the trunk. To avoid cutting too low,rookie will sometimes do a "safety cut" a little higher than they really want to get to, wait for buds to pop, and chop back to those buds once they are showing...

3- best time is Spring for this type of trunk chop. You know better than I when that is exactly in your area... I'd do it right around the time the buds just start to swell in my area.

4- you can go hard on Maple roots. REAL HARD. I would not recommend doing it at the same time you do the chop. Sometimes that works out fine.. Sometimes it does not. For a big field grown tree like this... Well maybe I should just ask- was it JUST DUG? Looks like it is potted in a trash bag! LOL. Pot of choice for discerning collectors... Gotta get those real heavy duty contractor bags though. John g scoffed at my "glad bags" when I showed up to the swamp with them this summer!
Anyhow- if it was just dug... I'd let it recover for a year or two before messing with the roots especially. JMHO.

Maples are my favorites! They do take little time and patience. I know you can do some real cool stuff with Junipers in one sitting- hard to do much with a Maple in a short amount of time. You pretty much hit it hard, let it recover for a while, attack it again... It is a process that takes a while, but man they can be awesome when you do them right! Hope you really catch the "Maple bug"!

 

[ColinFraser]

Cool - can't beat the price!
Looks like good potential. This is an elephant foot:
Wanna see an old braided benjamina fusion? (spoiler alert: it still looks crappy)

 

[benw3790]

Yeah, id wait until spring, do your chop and repot. Just dont go super hard on the roots since youll be doing the chop too. Youll be able to root prune atleast a 1/3 of the roots though, probably. sounds like you already have a good plan.. straight trunks do make great brooms. Thats what ive done with some of my deciduous trees, that have straight trunks and its been working out pretty good. If you do it at the right time, youll have primary branches established in no time. But as Eric said, you do some work, let it rest, do some work and let is rest, wash, rinse and repeat! Thats actually not too bad of material. Especially for free!!

 

[A Random User]

1- for the most part, yeah that makes sense... Sounds like you have a plan and on a healthy Maple, you can chop back pretty far without much concern... I had one ever that didn't make it and I think I just went below the lowest node on the tree...

2- guess I kinda started answering this above but there is no need tha be foliage left above the chop IF THE TREE IS HAPPY when you do it, and if you do not chop below the lowest node on the trunk. To avoid cutting too low,rookie will sometimes do a "safety cut" a little higher than they really want to get to, wait for buds to pop, and chop back to those buds once they are showing...

3- best time is Spring for this type of trunk chop. You know better than I when that is exactly in your area... I'd do it right around the time the buds just start to swell in my area.

4- you can go hard on Maple roots. REAL HARD. I would not recommend doing it at the same time you do the chop. Sometimes that works out fine.. Sometimes it does not. For a big field grown tree like this... Well maybe I should just ask- was it JUST DUG? Looks like it is potted in a trash bag! LOL. Pot of choice for discerning collectors... Gotta get those real heavy duty contractor bags though. John g scoffed at my "glad bags" when I showed up to the swamp with them this summer!
Anyhow- if it was just dug... I'd let it recover for a year or two before messing with the roots especially. JMHO.

Maples are my favorites! They do take little time and patience. I know you can do some real cool stuff with Junipers in one sitting- hard to do much with a Maple in a short amount of time. You pretty much hit it hard, let it recover for a while, attack it again... It is a process that takes a while, but man they can be awesome when you do them right! Hope you really catch the "Maple bug"!

Thanks for the reply!
Sorry, I should of been more specific regarding it being field grown... It was actually grown in a raised bed for years after I believe... and has spent the last year or two, possibly more? Just sitting on top of the ground... without a pot. So, I just picked it up, and put it in the trash bag so as to not get dirt all over my car!

It has been air pruned, so to speak! Alot of fine feeder roots... so, I think a heavy root chop would be more than likely cool...

However, with material one needs to do so much work too... I would always prefer that if it is to die, that it do so, not after spending years of having work and time involved! So, if possible... some material obviously can not be treated so heavy handed, I would prefer to bite the bullet and do the risk up front!

 

[A Random User]

Yeah, id wait until spring, do your chop and repot. Just dont go super hard on the roots since youll be doing the chop too. Youll be able to root prune atleast a 1/3 of the roots though, probably. sounds like you already have a good plan.. straight trunks do make great brooms. Thats what ive done with some of my deciduous trees, that have straight trunks and its been working out pretty good. If you do it at the right time, youll have primary branches established in no time. But as Eric said, you do some work, let it rest, do some work and let is rest, wash, rinse and repeat! Thats actually not too bad of material. Especially for free!!

Thanks for the reply! After I chop the trunk, I had planned on letting the branches run free for a couple of years to thicken up and heal over the chop... obviously some wire and movement will be applied!

 

[Dav4]

From where I'm standing, this tree doesn't need a chop. I'd love to see this tree leafless, but it appears that the existing branches break off from the trunk at an acceptable distance from the base. Again, from where I'm standing, your biggest issue is the roots. I've tried ground layering these and have been frustrated by their extreme vigor and absolute refusal to give up on their original root system. My suggestion would be to reduce the roots to the most level and reasonable spread around the trunk and plan on improving with root grafts. As far as timing goes, I'd start working it whenever it drops it's leaves...it's likely to start pushing new growth soon after.

 

[Stickroot]

Then what kind of foot is this ?

 

[ColinFraser]

Then what kind of foot is this ?View attachment 86484

Ostrich or emu

 

[Eric Group]

Thanks for the reply!
Sorry, I should of been more specific regarding it being field grown... It was actually grown in a raised bed for years after I believe... and has spent the last year or two, possibly more? Just sitting on top of the ground... without a pot. So, I just picked it up, and put it in the trash bag so as to not get dirt all over my car!

It has been air pruned, so to speak! Alot of fine feeder roots... so, I think a heavy root chop would be more than likely cool...

However, with material one needs to do so much work too... I would always prefer that if it is to die, that it do so, not after spending years of having work and time involved! So, if possible... some material obviously can not be treated so heavy handed, I would prefer to bite the bullet and do the risk up front!

I tend to take the same sort of angle on material I am not as excited about! "It will live and be dramatically improved, or it WON'T"... At least I didn't spend 5 years working on a sub par tree without getting the kind of results I want.

 

[CWTurner]

First of all Sawgrass, I'm impressed that someone with your talent has the humility to ask advice on a tree that you're not experienced with. That's the way to show us how its done.

I don't have any experience myself with maples, and I don't like those giant scars from a trunk chop either. I saw a post (here?) where the tree was split vertically into four parts (quartered, when looking down from above of the trunk), then each quarter was tapered and when the 4 quarters were pulled together the tree had good taper and no giant disc of a scar. I'm betting you could pull that off.

No idea when would be the proper time for that though.
CW

 

[Stickroot]

First of all Sawgrass, I'm impressed that someone with your talent has the humility to ask advice on a tree that you're not experienced with. That's the way to show us how its done.

I don't have any experience myself with maples, and I don't like those giant scars from a trunk chop either. I saw a post (here?) where the tree was split vertically into four parts (quartered, when looking down from above of the trunk), then each quarter was tapered and when the 4 quarters were pulled together the tree had good taper and no giant disc of a scar. I'm betting you could pull that off.

No idea when would be the proper time for that though.
CW

I would love to see this! Could you find that maybe?

 

[A Random User]

Cool - can't beat the price!
Looks like good potential. This is an elephant foot:
Wanna see an old braided benjamina fusion? (spoiler alert: it still looks crappy)

Thanks for the reply!
A lot of the reasoning behind the price was due to the fact that I help out the individual on a lot of his material, and I believe he was at a loss where to go with it, and realized it was going to take some drastic risk taking to move it in the right direction, and I don't think he felt confident taking the risks...

For me, nothing ventured, nothing gained!

 

[ColinFraser]

I would love to see this! Could you find that maybe?

I remember seeing pictures of a similar thing with a ficus- drilled out the chop, leaving the cambium around a cavity, notched it, and then cinched the whole thing up to a smaller diameter . . . I think it was on Bnut. . .

 

[Vin]

I would love to see this! Could you find that maybe?

It was a Bald Cypress I believe and the quarters were bolted together. I'll try and find it.

 

[sorce]

From where I'm standing, this tree doesn't need a chop. I'd love to see this tree leafless, but it appears that the existing branches break off from the trunk at an acceptable distance from the base. Again, from where I'm standing, your biggest issue is the roots. I've tried ground layering these and have been frustrated by their extreme vigor and absolute refusal to give up on their original root system. My suggestion would be to reduce the roots to the most level and reasonable spread around the trunk and plan on improving with root grafts. As far as timing goes, I'd start working it whenever it drops it's leaves...it's likely to start pushing new growth soon after.

Man. We should have a gambling option here. And I don't gamble.

But I Got $20 on the quoted is the path to righteousness.

But it's Sawgrass so I got $20 on a chop too!

And 50 cents on it weeps!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Cinderella just needs a crown and some slippers!

Florida? What, by March?

Sorce

 

[A Random User]

From where I'm standing, this tree doesn't need a chop. I'd love to see this tree leafless, but it appears that the existing branches break off from the trunk at an acceptable distance from the base. Again, from where I'm standing, your biggest issue is the roots. I've tried ground layering these and have been frustrated by their extreme vigor and absolute refusal to give up on their original root system. My suggestion would be to reduce the roots to the most level and reasonable spread around the trunk and plan on improving with root grafts. As far as timing goes, I'd start working it whenever it drops it's leaves...it's likely to start pushing new growth soon after.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it!
I totally agree with the roots. I have never done work on maples such as this. The closest thing I can think of, that I have worked on is crepe mrytles... an in their case, I have found the only way to actually get any decent degree of nebari, is to complete saw them flat, let them grow out the next year. Then repot and lay roots out flat, and the next year and after repeat. This is why I asked about doing this with the Maple.

As far as trunk height... I would not necessarily mind the height, if it was a type of material that I could wire something down into this region... problem is that since I was thinking about a style more with upward branching, I am worried with the amount of real estate that will be shown with the trunk, that the final image will end up looking more like a lollipop, or a topiary.

It is hard to see with the photos, there is a tiny little branch that shoots straight down over the top of the trunk. Where I am considering cutting is at the bottom of this branch, or some where close. When I let the new branches grow to firm the continuation of the trunk, they will first go up, and then gradually turn out and down... so, the eventual design will have more height, but as it sits currently, the real branching that exists starts off about another 8-10 inches higher up the trunk from here. I think this is too far up to begin the initial design.

Lastly, because we have almost no winter, maples down here often don't really drop all their leaves, often our bald cypress don't either... so, what I probably will have to do is when I see the good majority seem like they are dropping, I will have to induce the rest?

 

[A Random User]

I tend to take the same sort of angle on material I am not as excited about! "It will live and be dramatically improved, or it WON'T"... At least I didn't spend 5 years working on a sub par tree without getting the kind of results I want.

I agree... but will differ slightly in the fact that I will do it on the material I care for as well... if the end design is to be better, but am a slight mire hesitant towards doing it! Just take a shot or down a beer and break out the saw! Lol!

 

[A Random User]

First of all Sawgrass, I'm impressed that someone with your talent has the humility to ask advice on a tree that you're not experienced with. That's the way to show us how its done.

I don't have any experience myself with maples, and I don't like those giant scars from a trunk chop either. I saw a post (here?) where the tree was split vertically into four parts (quartered, when looking down from above of the trunk), then each quarter was tapered and when the 4 quarters were pulled together the tree had good taper and no giant disc of a scar. I'm betting you could pull that off.

No idea when would be the proper time for that though.
CW

Thanks for the reply!
I may go back n forth with folks here from time to time over things we disagree with and see differently and come to different conclusion on what the experience has been regarding different procedures or ways of doing things, usually this has a lot to do with their are often many different ways to get to the same conclusion... so often we are only arguing semantics...

But, there is no shame in not knowing something, just in the fact of pretending one does! No person can know everything... there is not enough time on earth to know that!