My Current Collection

coh · Oct 31, 2015

OK, did some reading after posting my last question. It sounds like avid is not really a systemic but more of a contact poison. Apparently there is some absorption into leaf tissue but it doesn't really move into plant tissues in large quantities like a true systemic would. So if Ryan's grow tent/room/whatever are still infested with mites, avid might reduce but not eliminate the problem unless other control measures (such as suggested by Crust) are implemented as well.

sorce · Nov 1, 2015

Get a bottle of peppermint and ass oil spray.

Better safe and done than half done and bothered!

Sorce

Redwood Ryan · Nov 1, 2015

Mmm I feel like I'm in a bit of a pickle no matter what. Cleaning everything would be a HUGE pain and wouldn't guarantee success. I'm just fighting a losing battle every winter, it seems.

Redwood Ryan · Nov 9, 2015

This Wednesday I'll be treating the trees with the systemic. In that time I will also be deconstructing the setups and giving everything a nice cleaning.

I'm also considering going back to the old way of growing, where I grew using a lot of humidity. The trees loved the humidity and grew a ton. It made battling the bugs easier as well because supposedly mites hate humidity.

coh · Nov 9, 2015

which systemic are you going to use?

Redwood Ryan · Nov 9, 2015

coh said:
which systemic are you going to use?

Probably the Bayer 3 in 1 you have recommended.

coh · Nov 9, 2015

That should work on the scale, what is the plan of attack on the mites?

Redwood Ryan · Nov 9, 2015

coh said:
That should work on the scale, what is the plan of attack on the mites?

That I couldn't tell you. If I get humidity up, I can release predatory mites. I want to spray them with something before that though. I'm not certain if I can use the systemic and a spray at the same time though.

Redwood Ryan · Nov 9, 2015

What is the general rule with systemics though? How often can they be applied?

Giga · Nov 9, 2015

Redwood Ryan said:
What is the general rule with systemics though? How often can they be applied?

I do mine once a year in spring n tree's like malus,prunus n tree that attacked things.

Redwood Ryan · Nov 9, 2015

So is one application powerful enough?

Giga · Nov 9, 2015

The stuff I use says so and I've had few pest since, so I think so

Redwood Ryan · Nov 10, 2015

I'd like to wipe each individual leaf as well. Sure, it'll take a while, but it'll be effective. I think I read somewhere that a dish soap/veg oil/alcohol mixture works. Can anyone confirm this?

crust · Nov 10, 2015

check this spider mite info out--http://nyx.meccahosting.com/~a00084eb/spider_mites.htm

crust · Nov 10, 2015

coh said:
OK, did some reading after posting my last question. It sounds like avid is not really a systemic but more of a contact poison. Apparently there is some absorption into leaf tissue but it doesn't really move into plant tissues in large quantities like a true systemic would. So if Ryan's grow tent/room/whatever are still infested with mites, avid might reduce but not eliminate the problem unless other control measures (such as suggested by Crust) are implemented as well.

Technically Avid is at best, translaminar (kind of systemic) but it does not really matter because systemics generally only are carried in the phloem or xylem and mites typically don't have to feed there and generally perfer the midrib and plant veins, and not in the phloem or xylem.

sorce · Nov 11, 2015

A clickable link? Good info!

http://nyx.meccahosting.com/~a00084eb/spider_mites.htm

Redwood Ryan said:
dish soap/veg oil/alcohol mixture

I think dish soap works as a smother, veg oil smothers sure, alcohol is a shell burner.

I don't know if mixing them would help. I feel the alcohol will lose it's burning characteristic against the oil.

I will take just dish soap. Dawn. The one safe for oil drenched ducks!

Shake it into a bubble foam, and spray that on the leaf bottoms. It acts as a smother.

Sorce

Giga · Nov 11, 2015

Also be aware(I'm sure your are) just how harsh systematics can be on the environment and don't get it on yourself. I try and use a big tub and catch all the excess that drains out of each tree and dispose of it properly. So the soap spraying option might be better, but more time consuming. I'm sorry your dealing with this-must be frustrating. I never had an issue all the years I kept tropical tree's, guess I got lucky but I jut sold the last of my tropical tree's this last weekend(bittersweet) so I'll just vicariously live through you lol

coh · Nov 11, 2015

crust said:
Technically Avid is at best, translaminar (kind of systemic) but it does not really matter because systemics generally only are carried in the phloem or xylem and mites typically don't have to feed there and generally perfer the midrib and plant veins, and not in the phloem or xylem.

Not sure what you're trying to say here? If a systemic such as imidacloprid gets into the xylem, it should wind up in all the plant cells eventually. Otherwise, how does it wind up getting into the pollen and nectar (and thus get picked up by bees)?

The avid being a translaminar, sounds like it gets absorbed by leaf tissue but then does not readily move through the plants vascular system. So if you miss a leaf or section of a plant when spraying, that area would not be protected...I think.

In any case, imidacloprid doesn't seem to be effective against mites, and I've read studies that indicate that it actually increases their reproductive rate...thus it can make a mite problem worse. But it is effective against many other sucking insects such as scale.

crust · Nov 11, 2015

coh said:
Not sure what you're trying to say here? If a systemic such as imidacloprid gets into the xylem, it should wind up in all the plant cells eventually. Otherwise, how does it wind up getting into the pollen and nectar (and thus get picked up by bees)?

The avid being a translaminar, sounds like it gets absorbed by leaf tissue but then does not readily move through the plants vascular system. So if you miss a leaf or section of a plant when spraying, that area would not be protected...I think.

In any case, imidacloprid doesn't seem to be effective against mites, and I've read studies that indicate that it actually increases their reproductive rate...thus it can make a mite problem worse. But it is effective against many other sucking insects such as scale.

What I was trying to say is the info on imidacloprid says that the poison does not necessarily get in cells or eventually make the whole plant toxic. My understanding is that would take long term continuous applications to achieve which is not the usual way it is applied--essentially it makes the juices located in the phloem or xylem of the plant toxic--for a while--and yes I to have heard is can technically attract spider mites via some plant response. Ryan N. also said imidacloprid requires an organic base to be effective when used as a root drench and is not effective in a substrate such as a pumice/ lava/ aka--some thing about the chemical needing the organic material to "bind" to--I had never heard this.

Redwood Ryan · Nov 22, 2015

Doesn't seem like the Lacewings did anything, so I might just turn to systemic. It's dangerous, which concerns me, but I have to do what I have to do...

My Current Collection

Imperial Masterpiece

Nonsense Rascal

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

Omono

Omono

Nonsense Rascal

Masterpiece

Imperial Masterpiece

Omono

Masterpiece

Similar threads