Winged Elm

ColinFraser

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I purchased this tree at the Huntington Gardens bonsai-a-thon this past weekend. It has issues, and I don't mind hearing about them ;) It wasn't terribly expensive, so I'm not stressed about it one bit.
I haven't seen this species for sale here before, and the time to buy something different is when you see it. I wanted to buy a bigger tree, and this fit the bill.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

As it sits now, it's pretty much a tall stump wearing a little bonsai as a hat!
I'll outline my ideas in the next post . . .
 
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ColinFraser

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OK, some things about it. There is a smaller tree in the pot that is the result of a root being cut from the main trunk, but left in the soil. The seller was suggesting a 'mother-daughter' style, but I'm not sure I'm into that . . . It has its own roots, so I should be able to separate it easily if I so choose. But, that might be a valid direction for solving design problems . . .

Let's get this one out of the way: The top is fairly well developed, so I could probably layer off the upper third or half and have something further along. I'm not ready to give up on the large trunk and it's great bark yet though, and I can always keep developing it and layer later. There is a bit of a "bottleneck" leading up to the most ramified upper section, and either way, that needs to be fattened to smooth the taper into the top (or the 'middle' if I were layering it).

The lowest main branch was chewed off by a dog, or met some other such terrible fate, but it has a long vigorous new whip coming along from the stub. My initial preference is to let this grow as much as possible. If it becomes a thick first branch and also thickens the trunk below it some, I think the overall image could be improved significantly and the tree could remain near its present height.
 

ColinFraser

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I don't know when it was last repotted, but I think I might like to get it into a large mixing-tub/pot. I'm also considering finding a place to put it in the ground to really get that lowest branch to go.

Is it too late this year? It's covered in buds, but no leaves have emerged yet. When is the best time to repot or do root work with these?
 

Eric Group

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If it hasn't leafed out yet, you are fine to repot.

Great bark on this one!! The taper is... Not so great.. But you clearly recognize the short comings here. I do not see the "mother daughter style for this one either.

Careful layering a chopping off parts of the tree... It will be difficult perhaps to create a believable transition and it will take many years to develop bark like that on the new part of the tree! Might not be worth it.. If you let a low branch grow out and thicken the lower part of the trunk it might help some, but you would have to do it for years!
 

ColinFraser

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It also just occurred to me that I could graft the low branches of the "daughter" tree to the main trunk as sacrifices - this should hasten the thickening of the lowest part of the trunk . . . A bit. Still a long haul, I agree
 
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Eric Group

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It also just occurred to me that I could graft the low branches of the "daughter" tree to the main trunk as sacrifices - this should hasten the thickening of the lowest part of the trunk . . . A bit. Still a long haul, I agree
I cannot tell for sure but the last pic looked like there might be a bit of reverse taper a couple inches off the ground? Might be an opp to shorten the tree by ground layering at that spot or above, which would improve the taper a bit and could give you a better tree with controllable nebari from the start... Shorten a couple inches off the bottom and you don't have to worry about the transition you have to heal over from an air layer higher up...
 

ColinFraser

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I cannot tell for sure but the last pic looked like there might be a bit of reverse taper a couple inches off the ground? Might be an opp to shorten the tree by ground layering at that spot or above, which would improve the taper a bit and could give you a better tree with controllable nebari from the start... Shorten a couple inches off the bottom and you don't have to worry about the transition you have to heal over from an air layer higher up...
Yes, you are correct. That was on my mental list. Maybe a repot now, plus start some root cuttings (an inevitable byproduct of the repot anyway) . . . next season I could thread-graft those on as a radial root flare at the widest point instead of a ground layer. Our club just had a demo doing that with tridents - any reason it wouldn't work on an elm?
Thanks so much for your input.
 

Zach Smith

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I have a suggestion for you. In order to get the tapering transition where it needs to be, you should cut back the leader hard and let a new vegetative shoot take off to thicken the transition. I think you could layer the top off and get the same effect. It's almost impossible to correct the obvious problem with the taper working with what you've got. The tree is used to slower growth in the apex because it's been trained that way to build ramification.

Good luck with your project!

Zach
 

ColinFraser

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I have a suggestion for you. In order to get the tapering transition where it needs to be, you should cut back the leader hard and let a new vegetative shoot take off to thicken the transition. I think you could layer the top off and get the same effect. It's almost impossible to correct the obvious problem with the taper working with what you've got. The tree is used to slower growth in the apex because it's been trained that way to build ramification.

Good luck with your project!

Zach
Thanks! Just to clarify, are you suggesting a chop near the base of the ramified section (like in the obvious straight bit), or farther down the trunk in the main barked part?
 

sorce

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The only thing that bugs me, is the stump of branch at the bottom, where your low runner is coming from.
Seems it will never be in proportion, and makes this look unreal.
I would chop it off.

I would chop almost everything off, Especially the t-bar at 19in on the ruler(or accentuate that dude!), and the part above the straight apex (nasty knot), and start building proportionate branching.

Carve this wound in a bit.

Air layer.

Without barked up sub trunks, naturalistic is pretty much out the window.
You could get a little more natural growing the new branches up and out but.......




2015-03-03_04.06.51.jpg
 

Zach Smith

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Thanks! Just to clarify, are you suggesting a chop near the base of the ramified section (like in the obvious straight bit), or farther down the trunk in the main barked part?
Near the base but not all the way down. Measure the diameter of the leader and cut it three diameters up from its base. Seal the cut to prevent drying out - winged elms will get a little dieback on cut branches and leaders so you want to minimize this.

Zach
 

ColinFraser

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For now I repotted into a mixing tub, separated the daughter tree, and started some root cuttings (I'll post more pictures soon).

I figure I should stare at the thing for a few days before beginning to hack at it, but that will probably follow soon . . .
Right now I'm liking the idea of losing the ramified "hat" below the knuckle and letting a new lead run amok. Probably chopping most of the middle branches too, since they are in the section I don't want to thicken.

I am really enjoying being a member here; thanks to everyone for the advice and camaraderie!
 

sorce

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I'm enjoying your posts, then there's the good trees. Lol.

Sorce
 

ColinFraser

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I'm enjoying your posts, then there's the good trees. Lol.

Sorce
Yes, right now, those are two separate categories! LOL
Hopefull, both my trees and I will improve with time. I'm just going to get over being embarrassed about posting my learning experiences. I'm sure people learning to draw don't like to show their early attempts, but it's an important part of the process.

I was just thinking, maybe I should wire out the top and branches for practice before I cut them off. If other posts are any indication, I'd get plenty of good feedback ;)
 
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sorce

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I was totally joking.

No need to be embarrassed.

You jumped in the deep end and that's one helluva back stroke!

I wish everyone did the homework you clearly have done, and put real trees, and work out to see!

Two scotch toast Bro! About 15 times!

Sorce
 

sorce

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Best be that pine your Choppin!
 

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Good for you Colin, you are doing. Too many times, I think people get frozen in place on trees with difficulties to overcome. But if you work and work them, you always wind up with more options. Great bark.
 

ColinFraser

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An important lesson I've learned so far from this tree is not to start a repotting project too late in the afternoon! It was a mad dash to get it situated, and I ran out of daylight before it was finally done. I was late meeting some family for dinner, and wet and covered in soil when I got there!
 
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