Help me pick a front on this JWP

Adair M

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I just wired it out. (The time to wire JWP is now. The old needles fall off easily).

Sorry, I didn't take a before pic, it looked all bushy. Here's a bit of history: I've had this tree a couple years. Peter Tea had styled it, Plant City bought it in California and had it shipped to Georgia. I bought it from Pkant City. When it arrived, I noticed that the apex was broken, it had a good bit of Peter's cut paste on it. It may have sustained more damage in shipping. At any rate, the apex died. These things are extremely slow to grow. It will be a decade before there will be a normal apex.

So, I've decided to make the dead apex a "feature" as if some natural disaster had damaged it, rather than cut it off.

So: here is the tree with the old front:
image.jpg

I've never really liked that planting angle. I need to do a half bare root repot on it next spring, so that would be a perfect opportunity to change the potting angle.

So, here's Choice A:

image.jpg

Here's Choice B:

image.jpg

Please vote!

If I go with B some tweeking of the pads is required. Not a problem.

Or, you can choose "Original" if you prefer!
 

Paradox

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Nice tree. I think I like B best.

Would you (or somebody) be willing to write a tutorial on Japanese white pines outlining the care for them in terms of the techniques and timing of pruning, candle pinching, needle management. Please?

They are so different from JBP with regard to those things. I have a JWP and I'm so confused over the differences that I've been afraid to work on it so I don't do something wrong. Problem is if I don't do anything, it won't be manageable at some point.


Thanks
 

Dav4

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I'm thinking option B because the main branch doesn't seem to be coming out of the inside of a curve as much as with option A, and the movement of the trunk is better. My only concern is that the upper trunk seems to be moving away from the front, though that might be due to the pictures.
 

watchndsky

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Lol i would pick b as well. For some rreason I have a tendency to shift that direction as well and have to make a conscious effort not to at times.
 

0soyoung

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I'd like to see how it looks from a side where the upper trunk is coming toward me - sorta the opposite side of the tree as you've photographed it. It feels like it is running away from me in these views.
 

Adair M

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Option B does have the apex moving away. Of course, it's dead anyway.
 

Adair M

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Oso, that puts the first lowest branch coming straight at you.
 
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Option A. Imagining B with full pats looks somehow not in balance for me. The tree has a good tapering graft. Reducing the top white pine portion would improve the tree a lot. But than it would involve grafting lots of branches making it a 15 year+ project. The second branch (the one on the right) in option A looks to thick. I've love those dilemma's...
 

Alain

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I'd say B because of the square-like cut bark at the base of the trunk.

On A this part looks more like wire related damages.
 

coh

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B looks better to me...the overall flow seems nicer, and the foliage in front hides what to me, at least, is a rather jarring transition between the thick lower trunk and the much thinner trunk above.
 

Adair M

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Nice tree. I think I like B best.

Would you (or somebody) be willing to write a tutorial on Japanese white pines outlining the care for them in terms of the techniques and timing of pruning, candle pinching, needle management. Please?

They are so different from JBP with regard to those things. I have a JWP and I'm so confused over the differences that I've been afraid to work on it so I don't do something wrong. Problem is if I don't do anything, it won't be manageable at some point.


Thanks
Well, the first thing to know is they grow SLOW. So, don't be doing trunk chops thinking they will grow back out in a year or two. They won't. They don't back bud readily. They will, but treasure and protect those back buds.

They do not tolerate decandling. The growth you get in the Spring is what you get. If you get more than two candles extend, reduce to two. If you get a really strong candle that extends too far beyond the others, break it off to match the others. Be sure to leave some needles.

Since the spring is the only time you get growth, the new needles are hardened off by the end of summer. The previous year's needles will start to turn yellow and brown, and fall off easily. Knock them off, and wire. The crotches of JWP split open easily so be careful. You should make sure the tips, the tufts of foliage, are pointing up. They shouldn't be pointed straight up, up at about a 45 degree angle. If they are pointed down, they will die. Straight out, and they'll be weak. There should be no hanging needles.

Repotting is just like JBP. In fact, most of them are grafted onto JBP stock like this one.

Styling: JWP should have rounder, softer apexes that JBP. Since these are mountain pines, it is acceptable to have jins and Shari.

The key thing is to try to keep the foliage close to the trunk healthy. The branches will eventually get too long, and have to be cut back. I've seen many "hollow" JWPs. By that I mean they appear to have a full canopy, but when you look inside, it's bare. Only long thin bare branches with only a tiny tuft of foliage at the end. Try to avoid that by keeping the canopy open by wiring and creating oafs of foliage rather than a "helmet".

I hope this helps.
 

0soyoung

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The key thing is to try to keep the foliage close to the trunk healthy. The branches will eventually get too long, and have to be cut back.
This is all a consequence of the fact they don't back bud.

You don't mention pruning back this year's growth, after it has hardened, keeping a few rows of fascicles. AFAK this is/was part of the standard technique. The main point of doing so is that this will induce fascicular buds (ramification) and slow the inevitable march of the foliage away from the trunk.
 

Adair M

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180 from your first picture wouldn't and the upper trunk would be coming toward me, rather than running away. But, not to worry if you've already ruled it out.


I'll take a pic from that angle for you. Actually the first pic does have the apex moving towards the viewer. Certainly more than B.
 

Adair M

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I dont
This is all a consequence of the fact they don't back bud.

You don't mention pruning back this year's growth, after it has hardened, keeping a few rows of fascicles. AFAK this is/was part of the standard technique. The main point of doing so is that this will induce fascicular buds (ramification) and slow the inevitable march of the foliage away from the trunk.
mention it because I don't do it.
 

Adair M

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I do break over vigorous candles in the spring. JWP are much weaker than JBP. And they grow so slowly. I get maybe 1/4 to 1/2 inch a year. The amount of growth I get is not the issue. It's getting and keeping interior branches and buds alive. I'd rather keep as much growth (foliage) on the tree as I can.

Now, maybe it's due to where I live. I do keep it in full sun. Here in North Georgia, I'm about as far south as they will grow. They may grow more vigorously in a cooler climate.
 
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